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No. Joel Send a noteboard - 20/01/2011 07:35:09 PM
In paragraph without referring to the 60'a can you show any single connection between him and Palin?

Giffords 2010 statement about Palins imagery and Loughners 2011 shooting are a BIT more recent, yes, so consider it done. Just because it started then doesn't change the fact it hasn't stopped.
Can you in anyway show that he followed the politics beyond his own little conspiracy rants?

Can I show he followed it WITHOUT referencing him following it? That's literally impossible. Can you show Obama follows Dems beyond leading them?
If you insist that despite any actual evidence to support you that the political atmosphere played a role in this can you provide any factual evidence that would suggest it was right wing rhetoric and not left wing rhetoric that drove him to this? Because despite all the left wing rhetoric to the contrary the left has zero high ground when it comes to rhetoric.

If someone kills Palin tomorrow do you think having some many liberals accuse her of inspiring murder will be to blame? Do you think that all of the unfounded attacks on her increase the likelihood that some nut job will try and kill her? If so please go chastise yourself for being a hate monger and inspiring violence.

I've been very careful to avoid violent imagery; I usually am, and for good reason, so, no, if someone commits an act of violence for which I've never even implied support I won't feel responsible. You're reaching, and it smells, rightly or not, of desperation. The connection with Palin herself was made in 2010, but you want evidence more recent than the '60s. I have to show Loughners political actions and interests without referencing any of them. And, to top it all off, the now classic "how dare you call him a conservative when he's obviously a liberal" as if there are so few conservative pols in AZ that liberal nuts there have to gun down fellow liberals.

If that's the best way you can defend the far rights inflammatory violent rhetoric you should CONSIDER the possibility it's indefensible.
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This message last edited by Joel on 20/01/2011 at 07:37:20 PM
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OK, I'm Officially Sick of the "Blood Libel" BS. Joel - 16/01/2011 12:18:22 PM 2134 Views
Why are they calling it "blood libel"? Camilla - 16/01/2011 12:23:47 PM 993 Views
Because if the facts were as they represent them those words would be applicable. Joel - 16/01/2011 12:49:22 PM 1163 Views
It's not entirely clear to me whether you're aware of this or not, but... Legolas - 16/01/2011 01:12:22 PM 1209 Views
That's why I said, "popularized". Joel - 16/01/2011 01:46:52 PM 1167 Views
I think Alan Dershowitz dealt with this nonsense already Isaac - 16/01/2011 02:34:10 PM 1530 Views
Interesting. I didn't realize it was so wide-spread. Legolas - 16/01/2011 03:10:28 PM 1067 Views
She wasn't even the first to use the term that week either Isaac - 16/01/2011 10:10:35 PM 1096 Views
I don't know that "expert" has anything to do with it. Legolas - 16/01/2011 10:18:54 PM 1089 Views
Re: I don't know that "expert" has anything to do with it. Isaac - 16/01/2011 11:30:38 PM 990 Views
Oh please don't you start to random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:34:43 PM 937 Views
I for one hadn't noticed it before. Legolas - 17/01/2011 10:25:57 PM 1125 Views
it was used here and nobody commented random thoughts - 17/01/2011 10:37:07 PM 1005 Views
LOL, I totally forgot that got posted here Isaac - 17/01/2011 10:54:26 PM 1048 Views
It's funny you should say that... Legolas - 18/01/2011 10:32:59 PM 1092 Views
Precisely: I noticed, but it hadn't become a rallying cry for "the real victim" (Palin). Joel - 19/01/2011 12:14:48 AM 1235 Views
I thought you were the real vicitim random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:49:06 PM 1170 Views
When and where did I say that? The ultimate victim is America, but six members of it just died. Joel - 19/01/2011 11:24:27 PM 900 Views
Re: It's funny you should say that... Isaac - 19/01/2011 03:29:52 PM 1073 Views
It was permissible to ignore until it became a rallying cry. Joel - 20/01/2011 04:27:23 PM 1112 Views
A rallying cry is hardly illegal Isaac - 20/01/2011 05:32:45 PM 1165 Views
I never said it was. Joel - 20/01/2011 06:59:39 PM 1257 Views
Oh, I noticed that one alright. Legolas - 18/01/2011 10:25:23 PM 930 Views
but is he accussed of being a tasteless moron who doesn't know what it means? random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:28:03 PM 975 Views
I don't know, if I have to judge him based on that one article, then tasteless moron, absolutely. Legolas - 19/01/2011 06:14:43 PM 1092 Views
compared to the way similar terms are used? random thoughts - 19/01/2011 06:58:02 PM 1080 Views
I meant I hadn't seen it used in different contexts before. Legolas - 19/01/2011 07:35:00 PM 1054 Views
The peole who called her stupid for using the term didn't know it was so wide spread either random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:33:19 PM 956 Views
Indeed, my response to Legolas references Wikipedias quotation of him. Joel - 16/01/2011 10:24:09 PM 1139 Views
Re: Indeed, my response to Legolas references Wikipedias quotation of him. Isaac - 16/01/2011 11:09:21 PM 1177 Views
Again, Giffords specifically made the connection between Palins imagery and an attack on her. Joel - 17/01/2011 12:53:08 AM 1321 Views
That means precisely nothing Isaac - 17/01/2011 03:59:07 PM 1022 Views
It means everything. Joel - 18/01/2011 08:34:55 PM 1268 Views
I'm trying to understand your logic Chas - 19/01/2011 12:50:28 AM 873 Views
There are two points: Joel - 19/01/2011 02:47:48 AM 1081 Views
I don't agree, but I understand. *NM* Chas - 19/01/2011 10:14:13 PM 514 Views
Giffords' statements and Palins are matters of public record; they're indisputable. Joel - 19/01/2011 11:34:53 PM 1060 Views
I must say, if more people on both sides could say that we'd all be better for it. Joel - 20/01/2011 04:32:55 AM 1091 Views
Re: It means everything. Isaac - 19/01/2011 05:55:02 PM 907 Views
That's simply illogical. Joel - 20/01/2011 01:08:51 AM 1291 Views
the old step one steal underwear step three profit argument random thoughts - 19/01/2011 06:01:14 PM 1158 Views
Your inability/unwillingness to follow basic and clearly delineated logic is not my failing. Joel - 20/01/2011 01:19:31 AM 1022 Views
I admit I can't follow gnome logic *NM* random thoughts - 20/01/2011 05:50:22 AM 503 Views
I demonstrated the connection, whether or not you choose to look the other way. Joel - 20/01/2011 03:16:28 PM 1056 Views
that is some twisted and bizarre logic random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:38:41 PM 1108 Views
Giffords said Palins crosshairs imagery would have "consequences"; Palin calls the suggestion libel. Joel - 18/01/2011 08:54:45 PM 1000 Views
yes but the only consequences is liberals using them to slander Palin random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:58:35 PM 1077 Views
I read Toms reply; I don't think he exactly vindicated your position, nor meant to do so. Joel - 20/01/2011 01:52:37 AM 1387 Views
It was an example of blaming the victim, a phrase you keep misusing random thoughts - 20/01/2011 06:28:21 PM 1035 Views
I thought you said only liberals blinded by political bias committed that grave sin. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:47:09 PM 1079 Views
so in other words you again missed the point random thoughts - 20/01/2011 08:26:49 PM 1013 Views
Well, one of us did. Joel - 20/01/2011 09:24:35 PM 1148 Views
so lets be clear do you or don't you understand what it means to "blame the vicitm"? random thoughts - 20/01/2011 10:03:48 PM 768 Views
I understand it well; can we be equally clear you say the victim here is Palin? Joel - 20/01/2011 10:44:08 PM 1216 Views
So I am a little confused on something... MightyYT - 16/01/2011 02:38:59 PM 1155 Views
Palin putting Giffords district in the crosshairs and Giffords implying at the time she feared this Joel - 16/01/2011 11:21:36 PM 1295 Views
If I understand what you are saying correctly... MightyYT - 17/01/2011 07:07:56 AM 1028 Views
I'm sorry you so badly misunderstand. Joel - 17/01/2011 08:33:47 AM 1046 Views
Re: I'm sorry you so badly misunderstand. Isaac - 17/01/2011 04:24:01 PM 1106 Views
The Secret Service does guard Congressmen, just not all of them automatically. Joel - 18/01/2011 09:13:39 PM 919 Views
No, they don't Isaac - 18/01/2011 10:19:34 PM 1119 Views
Really? Cannoli says differently, and I believe he's right on that one. Joel - 18/01/2011 10:50:51 PM 1217 Views
You seem to be reading what you want to from what I said Isaac - 19/01/2011 01:27:32 PM 1051 Views
I read what you said & understood it as you restate here, hence I referenced local police (twice) Joel - 20/01/2011 02:15:17 AM 1108 Views
The problem here is your ignoring normal policing powers to concoct an absurdity Isaac - 20/01/2011 04:20:25 PM 1192 Views
More absurd than the notion such incitement warrants no notice? Joel - 20/01/2011 05:42:47 PM 1171 Views
really because people post that kind of crap daily and nothing happens random thoughts - 20/01/2011 05:57:52 PM 995 Views
I thought waterboarding was OK and any suggestion to the contrary was terrorist sympathizing. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:54:05 PM 933 Views
way to dodge the point again random thoughts - 20/01/2011 08:34:33 PM 969 Views
Do you have an example of a credible threat of injury to a Congressman, or calls for one? Joel - 20/01/2011 10:02:53 PM 1035 Views
Your shifting your original premise, *again* Isaac - 20/01/2011 08:24:18 PM 1013 Views
No, you're simply missing the point of it. Joel - 20/01/2011 11:09:57 PM 1029 Views
There is no point Isaac - 21/01/2011 12:22:30 AM 1068 Views
If I had no point I wouldn't bother, but fair enough. Joel - 21/01/2011 01:20:32 AM 1316 Views
Uh...Last I checked conservatives didn't list the Communist Manifesto as a favourite book. Dragonsoul - 16/01/2011 03:05:07 PM 1338 Views
You're awesome at missing points, aren't you? Dannymac - 16/01/2011 07:26:30 PM 1076 Views
where is the accountability for those committing slander? random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:52:40 PM 999 Views
Libs hate Mein Kampf and We the Living; conservatives hate the Communist Manifesto: He's neither. Joel - 16/01/2011 10:06:02 PM 1022 Views
conseartives hate Mein Kampf and liberals stil read the Communist Manifesto random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:57:22 PM 1009 Views
That first line is says it all. Joel - 18/01/2011 09:34:06 PM 1091 Views
Nazis had more in common with communist then capitalist random thoughts - 19/01/2011 04:10:09 PM 1200 Views
The founder of fascism called it "the merger of corporate and national power". Joel - 20/01/2011 02:51:09 AM 1089 Views
and that is supposed to mean something? random thoughts - 20/01/2011 06:06:18 PM 1095 Views
YOU are cherry picking. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:50:21 PM 1031 Views
It is to be expected that this site would be libtard central... Shannow - 16/01/2011 05:23:53 PM 1311 Views
See my reply to Dragonsoul above. Dannymac - 16/01/2011 07:30:40 PM 1141 Views
Yeah, your first was better Isaac - 16/01/2011 09:48:58 PM 952 Views
Again, I don't think Palin intended this, but Giffords feared ten months ago that this could result. Joel - 16/01/2011 11:29:19 PM 1105 Views
And I call bullshit Cannoli - 18/01/2011 03:12:13 PM 1234 Views
If Palin wants to accuse Giffords of libel she should have the guts to do it to her face. Joel - 18/01/2011 10:39:07 PM 1197 Views
So if some jihadist shot Gifford, would you also blame Palin? Shannow - 19/01/2011 02:52:42 PM 1087 Views
don't get ti doesn't matter who is to blame it just matters if they can use it *NM* random thoughts - 19/01/2011 04:11:09 PM 506 Views
No, I'd blame the shooter first and the mullahs shouting, "JIHAD111" second, as I always do. Joel - 20/01/2011 03:11:33 AM 1176 Views
Then why are you even here? I pretty much agree with you entirely and I'm fairly liberal. *NM* Elaine - 18/01/2011 01:16:33 PM 591 Views
Palin didn't really have anything to do with this, but it makes sense she's blamed. Tom - 16/01/2011 10:19:51 PM 1038 Views
Pretty much. Joel - 16/01/2011 11:44:35 PM 1098 Views
Did they ever catch the person(s) that vandalized Gifford's office? *NM* Tashmere - 17/01/2011 03:30:36 AM 504 Views
I didn't realize someone had, but it appears a militia leader was responsible (shocking, I know). Joel - 17/01/2011 07:04:08 AM 1044 Views
politcal offices are vandalized on a regular basis *NM* random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:41:29 PM 474 Views
She only asked if they caught the guy, she didn't accuse anyone, Sarah. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:27:18 PM 989 Views
OK Olberman when did I imply otherwise? *NM* random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:48:41 PM 514 Views
"Political offices are vandalized on a regular basis". Joel - 20/01/2011 03:16:39 AM 1180 Views
Took you this long, huh? Macharius - 17/01/2011 01:53:31 PM 929 Views
I didn't want to look because I was afraid the charges against the far right demagogues might stick. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:07:26 PM 1268 Views
I am sick of the desperate attempts of liberals to find a way to use a tragedy random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:31:18 PM 961 Views
I'm just curious. callandor1000 - 17/01/2011 03:23:47 PM 918 Views
Re: I'm just curious. Camilla - 17/01/2011 03:28:04 PM 1074 Views
I always said I'd do that after Bush was re-elected. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:52:45 PM 952 Views
like I said a matter of faith random thoughts - 17/01/2011 04:27:51 PM 935 Views
I find it interesting... Jeordam - 17/01/2011 05:31:54 PM 1087 Views
I mention her looks solely because... callandor1000 - 20/01/2011 02:30:42 PM 977 Views
Had that convo with the cab driver on the way home from a New Years party. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:42:07 PM 1224 Views
If slander, not mine, Giffords' (at least you don't err like Palin and say, "libel" ). Joel - 18/01/2011 11:14:23 PM 1141 Views
mark you calendar today is the day Joel offically went around the bend into insanity random thoughts - 19/01/2011 05:28:06 PM 963 Views
A mirror will show me who's to blame? On whom have I put a crosshairs? Joel - 20/01/2011 03:23:43 AM 1018 Views
so it is all a matter of faith for you random thoughts - 20/01/2011 05:48:44 AM 951 Views
No, it's fairly straight forward logic. Joel - 20/01/2011 03:25:56 PM 1058 Views
sorry Joel but you haven't random thoughts - 20/01/2011 03:29:49 PM 857 Views
It's there; in this thread alone people from both sides of the aisle have acknowledged that. Joel - 20/01/2011 05:51:21 PM 952 Views
only in your does the connection exisit random thoughts - 20/01/2011 06:39:35 PM 995 Views
No. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:35:09 PM 1076 Views
dude wake up random thoughts - 20/01/2011 08:54:33 PM 1203 Views
Fine, I have no problem dropping the "right" label in my condemnations. Joel - 20/01/2011 10:39:34 PM 1207 Views
So in your opinion... Jeordam - 17/01/2011 05:27:58 PM 945 Views
How 'bout simply color coding them? Joel - 18/01/2011 11:21:03 PM 991 Views
Why not just blame Giffords? Cannoli - 17/01/2011 06:07:14 PM 1282 Views
Indeed, why not; Sarah Palin does. Joel - 18/01/2011 06:58:01 PM 1118 Views
The left are the ones storing up hate with their pathetic slaner random thoughts - 18/01/2011 07:53:23 PM 1063 Views
At least 95% of the blame is Loughners; he's a nut, but that doesn't exonerate the demagogues. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:24:11 PM 1153 Views
0% belongs to political rhetoric from the right random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:47:56 PM 934 Views
Uh huh; it's absurd to mention right wing rhetoric when left wing rhetoric is the OBVIOUS culprit Joel - 19/01/2011 02:59:41 PM 982 Views
No leftist rhetoric? You just called a bunch of people 'dangeorus lunatics' Isaac - 19/01/2011 03:37:54 PM 929 Views
Rhetoric is one thing, but I didn't use violent imagery, did I? Joel - 20/01/2011 01:40:14 AM 1259 Views
no but the democratic party used very similar images in the same state random thoughts - 20/01/2011 06:41:19 PM 1002 Views
It's news to me, but I condemn all violent inflammatory imagery and rhetoric. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:13:18 PM 963 Views
it was the national democrats random thoughts - 20/01/2011 08:32:01 PM 1067 Views
Then that's equally dangerous and reprehensible and more reason to loathe the DLC and DCCC. Joel - 20/01/2011 09:49:08 PM 1330 Views
The right is not the ones claiming rhetoric is the issue random thoughts - 19/01/2011 03:58:39 PM 974 Views
"WE aren't doing it, except for when we are". Admission of guilt is a poor defense. Joel - 20/01/2011 03:25:16 AM 947 Views
The irony of this thread is not lost on me. Jacob - 19/01/2011 04:09:01 PM 1125 Views
Exactly. *NM* Avendesora - 19/01/2011 04:51:40 PM 556 Views
Bizarre thread for that Soapbox Isaac - 19/01/2011 05:17:58 PM 866 Views
You missed the point, obviously. Jacob - 19/01/2011 06:04:23 PM 972 Views
so you are saying it is the same old RAFO random thoughts - 19/01/2011 06:47:24 PM 1051 Views
The thread has admittedly degenerated Isaac - 19/01/2011 07:02:12 PM 896 Views
Check your NB. Noted you a response. *NM* Jacob - 19/01/2011 07:04:58 PM 537 Views
That I knew it would go this way is why I avoided looking closely for so long. Joel - 19/01/2011 11:20:44 PM 1135 Views
Hey, now. I have to step in. Camilla - 20/01/2011 04:44:49 PM 1159 Views
I'm just saying a significant link can be demonstrated. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:07:27 PM 1200 Views
Re: OK, I'm Officially Sick of the "Blood Libel" BS. dart_board - 22/01/2011 05:49:44 PM 1145 Views
We can debate whether it's coincidental, but the connections are documented fact Joel - 22/01/2011 08:17:24 PM 1120 Views
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