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I thought waterboarding was OK and any suggestion to the contrary was terrorist sympathizing. Joel Send a noteboard - 20/01/2011 07:54:05 PM
Go to Daily Kos and it won't take you long to find someone suggesting a republican be injured. Try finding an articel about Gitmo and see how long it take to find someone suggesting Busha dn Cheney be waterboarded.

If Bush and Cheneys logic on the subject holds there'd be nothing wrong with doing it to them, but MY position is that it's torture, so it would be wrong applied to them as well. If they're right there's nothing wrong with doing it to them, but I contend they're wrong and no one should be waterboarded. As for Kos, as I've told you more times than I can count, I DON'T GO THERE, and partly for the very reason you note. I don't countenance people encouraging violence against my political opponents: Why do you DEFEND people who do it to yours?
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OK, I'm Officially Sick of the "Blood Libel" BS. Joel - 16/01/2011 12:18:22 PM 2215 Views
Why are they calling it "blood libel"? Camilla - 16/01/2011 12:23:47 PM 1096 Views
Because if the facts were as they represent them those words would be applicable. Joel - 16/01/2011 12:49:22 PM 1259 Views
It's not entirely clear to me whether you're aware of this or not, but... Legolas - 16/01/2011 01:12:22 PM 1296 Views
That's why I said, "popularized". Joel - 16/01/2011 01:46:52 PM 1277 Views
I think Alan Dershowitz dealt with this nonsense already Isaac - 16/01/2011 02:34:10 PM 1648 Views
Interesting. I didn't realize it was so wide-spread. Legolas - 16/01/2011 03:10:28 PM 1173 Views
She wasn't even the first to use the term that week either Isaac - 16/01/2011 10:10:35 PM 1196 Views
I don't know that "expert" has anything to do with it. Legolas - 16/01/2011 10:18:54 PM 1184 Views
Re: I don't know that "expert" has anything to do with it. Isaac - 16/01/2011 11:30:38 PM 1082 Views
Oh please don't you start to random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:34:43 PM 1017 Views
I for one hadn't noticed it before. Legolas - 17/01/2011 10:25:57 PM 1216 Views
it was used here and nobody commented random thoughts - 17/01/2011 10:37:07 PM 1114 Views
LOL, I totally forgot that got posted here Isaac - 17/01/2011 10:54:26 PM 1143 Views
It's funny you should say that... Legolas - 18/01/2011 10:32:59 PM 1184 Views
Precisely: I noticed, but it hadn't become a rallying cry for "the real victim" (Palin). Joel - 19/01/2011 12:14:48 AM 1326 Views
I thought you were the real vicitim random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:49:06 PM 1282 Views
When and where did I say that? The ultimate victim is America, but six members of it just died. Joel - 19/01/2011 11:24:27 PM 1001 Views
Re: It's funny you should say that... Isaac - 19/01/2011 03:29:52 PM 1167 Views
It was permissible to ignore until it became a rallying cry. Joel - 20/01/2011 04:27:23 PM 1198 Views
A rallying cry is hardly illegal Isaac - 20/01/2011 05:32:45 PM 1267 Views
I never said it was. Joel - 20/01/2011 06:59:39 PM 1354 Views
Oh, I noticed that one alright. Legolas - 18/01/2011 10:25:23 PM 1026 Views
but is he accussed of being a tasteless moron who doesn't know what it means? random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:28:03 PM 1071 Views
I don't know, if I have to judge him based on that one article, then tasteless moron, absolutely. Legolas - 19/01/2011 06:14:43 PM 1186 Views
compared to the way similar terms are used? random thoughts - 19/01/2011 06:58:02 PM 1189 Views
I meant I hadn't seen it used in different contexts before. Legolas - 19/01/2011 07:35:00 PM 1146 Views
The peole who called her stupid for using the term didn't know it was so wide spread either random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:33:19 PM 1055 Views
Indeed, my response to Legolas references Wikipedias quotation of him. Joel - 16/01/2011 10:24:09 PM 1233 Views
Re: Indeed, my response to Legolas references Wikipedias quotation of him. Isaac - 16/01/2011 11:09:21 PM 1290 Views
Again, Giffords specifically made the connection between Palins imagery and an attack on her. Joel - 17/01/2011 12:53:08 AM 1420 Views
That means precisely nothing Isaac - 17/01/2011 03:59:07 PM 1116 Views
It means everything. Joel - 18/01/2011 08:34:55 PM 1360 Views
I'm trying to understand your logic Chas - 19/01/2011 12:50:28 AM 964 Views
There are two points: Joel - 19/01/2011 02:47:48 AM 1185 Views
I don't agree, but I understand. *NM* Chas - 19/01/2011 10:14:13 PM 548 Views
Giffords' statements and Palins are matters of public record; they're indisputable. Joel - 19/01/2011 11:34:53 PM 1166 Views
I must say, if more people on both sides could say that we'd all be better for it. Joel - 20/01/2011 04:32:55 AM 1189 Views
Re: It means everything. Isaac - 19/01/2011 05:55:02 PM 996 Views
That's simply illogical. Joel - 20/01/2011 01:08:51 AM 1391 Views
the old step one steal underwear step three profit argument random thoughts - 19/01/2011 06:01:14 PM 1258 Views
Your inability/unwillingness to follow basic and clearly delineated logic is not my failing. Joel - 20/01/2011 01:19:31 AM 1122 Views
I admit I can't follow gnome logic *NM* random thoughts - 20/01/2011 05:50:22 AM 544 Views
I demonstrated the connection, whether or not you choose to look the other way. Joel - 20/01/2011 03:16:28 PM 1142 Views
that is some twisted and bizarre logic random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:38:41 PM 1205 Views
Giffords said Palins crosshairs imagery would have "consequences"; Palin calls the suggestion libel. Joel - 18/01/2011 08:54:45 PM 1083 Views
yes but the only consequences is liberals using them to slander Palin random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:58:35 PM 1187 Views
I read Toms reply; I don't think he exactly vindicated your position, nor meant to do so. Joel - 20/01/2011 01:52:37 AM 1499 Views
It was an example of blaming the victim, a phrase you keep misusing random thoughts - 20/01/2011 06:28:21 PM 1136 Views
I thought you said only liberals blinded by political bias committed that grave sin. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:47:09 PM 1179 Views
so in other words you again missed the point random thoughts - 20/01/2011 08:26:49 PM 1119 Views
Well, one of us did. Joel - 20/01/2011 09:24:35 PM 1244 Views
so lets be clear do you or don't you understand what it means to "blame the vicitm"? random thoughts - 20/01/2011 10:03:48 PM 874 Views
I understand it well; can we be equally clear you say the victim here is Palin? Joel - 20/01/2011 10:44:08 PM 1313 Views
So I am a little confused on something... MightyYT - 16/01/2011 02:38:59 PM 1251 Views
Palin putting Giffords district in the crosshairs and Giffords implying at the time she feared this Joel - 16/01/2011 11:21:36 PM 1385 Views
If I understand what you are saying correctly... MightyYT - 17/01/2011 07:07:56 AM 1118 Views
I'm sorry you so badly misunderstand. Joel - 17/01/2011 08:33:47 AM 1144 Views
Re: I'm sorry you so badly misunderstand. Isaac - 17/01/2011 04:24:01 PM 1215 Views
The Secret Service does guard Congressmen, just not all of them automatically. Joel - 18/01/2011 09:13:39 PM 1013 Views
No, they don't Isaac - 18/01/2011 10:19:34 PM 1211 Views
Really? Cannoli says differently, and I believe he's right on that one. Joel - 18/01/2011 10:50:51 PM 1317 Views
You seem to be reading what you want to from what I said Isaac - 19/01/2011 01:27:32 PM 1150 Views
I read what you said & understood it as you restate here, hence I referenced local police (twice) Joel - 20/01/2011 02:15:17 AM 1212 Views
The problem here is your ignoring normal policing powers to concoct an absurdity Isaac - 20/01/2011 04:20:25 PM 1290 Views
More absurd than the notion such incitement warrants no notice? Joel - 20/01/2011 05:42:47 PM 1266 Views
really because people post that kind of crap daily and nothing happens random thoughts - 20/01/2011 05:57:52 PM 1094 Views
I thought waterboarding was OK and any suggestion to the contrary was terrorist sympathizing. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:54:05 PM 1024 Views
way to dodge the point again random thoughts - 20/01/2011 08:34:33 PM 1071 Views
Do you have an example of a credible threat of injury to a Congressman, or calls for one? Joel - 20/01/2011 10:02:53 PM 1136 Views
Your shifting your original premise, *again* Isaac - 20/01/2011 08:24:18 PM 1112 Views
No, you're simply missing the point of it. Joel - 20/01/2011 11:09:57 PM 1130 Views
There is no point Isaac - 21/01/2011 12:22:30 AM 1175 Views
If I had no point I wouldn't bother, but fair enough. Joel - 21/01/2011 01:20:32 AM 1419 Views
Uh...Last I checked conservatives didn't list the Communist Manifesto as a favourite book. Dragonsoul - 16/01/2011 03:05:07 PM 1444 Views
You're awesome at missing points, aren't you? Dannymac - 16/01/2011 07:26:30 PM 1185 Views
where is the accountability for those committing slander? random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:52:40 PM 1094 Views
Libs hate Mein Kampf and We the Living; conservatives hate the Communist Manifesto: He's neither. Joel - 16/01/2011 10:06:02 PM 1113 Views
conseartives hate Mein Kampf and liberals stil read the Communist Manifesto random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:57:22 PM 1100 Views
That first line is says it all. Joel - 18/01/2011 09:34:06 PM 1195 Views
Nazis had more in common with communist then capitalist random thoughts - 19/01/2011 04:10:09 PM 1297 Views
The founder of fascism called it "the merger of corporate and national power". Joel - 20/01/2011 02:51:09 AM 1196 Views
and that is supposed to mean something? random thoughts - 20/01/2011 06:06:18 PM 1185 Views
YOU are cherry picking. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:50:21 PM 1133 Views
It is to be expected that this site would be libtard central... Shannow - 16/01/2011 05:23:53 PM 1412 Views
See my reply to Dragonsoul above. Dannymac - 16/01/2011 07:30:40 PM 1234 Views
Yeah, your first was better Isaac - 16/01/2011 09:48:58 PM 1073 Views
Again, I don't think Palin intended this, but Giffords feared ten months ago that this could result. Joel - 16/01/2011 11:29:19 PM 1200 Views
And I call bullshit Cannoli - 18/01/2011 03:12:13 PM 1329 Views
If Palin wants to accuse Giffords of libel she should have the guts to do it to her face. Joel - 18/01/2011 10:39:07 PM 1286 Views
So if some jihadist shot Gifford, would you also blame Palin? Shannow - 19/01/2011 02:52:42 PM 1175 Views
don't get ti doesn't matter who is to blame it just matters if they can use it *NM* random thoughts - 19/01/2011 04:11:09 PM 568 Views
No, I'd blame the shooter first and the mullahs shouting, "JIHAD111" second, as I always do. Joel - 20/01/2011 03:11:33 AM 1269 Views
Then why are you even here? I pretty much agree with you entirely and I'm fairly liberal. *NM* Elaine - 18/01/2011 01:16:33 PM 635 Views
Palin didn't really have anything to do with this, but it makes sense she's blamed. Tom - 16/01/2011 10:19:51 PM 1130 Views
Pretty much. Joel - 16/01/2011 11:44:35 PM 1192 Views
Did they ever catch the person(s) that vandalized Gifford's office? *NM* Tashmere - 17/01/2011 03:30:36 AM 546 Views
I didn't realize someone had, but it appears a militia leader was responsible (shocking, I know). Joel - 17/01/2011 07:04:08 AM 1141 Views
politcal offices are vandalized on a regular basis *NM* random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:41:29 PM 515 Views
She only asked if they caught the guy, she didn't accuse anyone, Sarah. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:27:18 PM 1084 Views
OK Olberman when did I imply otherwise? *NM* random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:48:41 PM 557 Views
"Political offices are vandalized on a regular basis". Joel - 20/01/2011 03:16:39 AM 1269 Views
Took you this long, huh? Macharius - 17/01/2011 01:53:31 PM 1016 Views
I didn't want to look because I was afraid the charges against the far right demagogues might stick. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:07:26 PM 1362 Views
I am sick of the desperate attempts of liberals to find a way to use a tragedy random thoughts - 17/01/2011 02:31:18 PM 1051 Views
I'm just curious. callandor1000 - 17/01/2011 03:23:47 PM 1014 Views
Re: I'm just curious. Camilla - 17/01/2011 03:28:04 PM 1175 Views
I always said I'd do that after Bush was re-elected. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:52:45 PM 1053 Views
like I said a matter of faith random thoughts - 17/01/2011 04:27:51 PM 1038 Views
I find it interesting... Jeordam - 17/01/2011 05:31:54 PM 1178 Views
I mention her looks solely because... callandor1000 - 20/01/2011 02:30:42 PM 1064 Views
Had that convo with the cab driver on the way home from a New Years party. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:42:07 PM 1317 Views
If slander, not mine, Giffords' (at least you don't err like Palin and say, "libel" ). Joel - 18/01/2011 11:14:23 PM 1242 Views
mark you calendar today is the day Joel offically went around the bend into insanity random thoughts - 19/01/2011 05:28:06 PM 1093 Views
A mirror will show me who's to blame? On whom have I put a crosshairs? Joel - 20/01/2011 03:23:43 AM 1109 Views
so it is all a matter of faith for you random thoughts - 20/01/2011 05:48:44 AM 1054 Views
No, it's fairly straight forward logic. Joel - 20/01/2011 03:25:56 PM 1153 Views
sorry Joel but you haven't random thoughts - 20/01/2011 03:29:49 PM 950 Views
It's there; in this thread alone people from both sides of the aisle have acknowledged that. Joel - 20/01/2011 05:51:21 PM 1051 Views
only in your does the connection exisit random thoughts - 20/01/2011 06:39:35 PM 1086 Views
No. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:35:09 PM 1181 Views
dude wake up random thoughts - 20/01/2011 08:54:33 PM 1291 Views
Fine, I have no problem dropping the "right" label in my condemnations. Joel - 20/01/2011 10:39:34 PM 1306 Views
So in your opinion... Jeordam - 17/01/2011 05:27:58 PM 1044 Views
How 'bout simply color coding them? Joel - 18/01/2011 11:21:03 PM 1090 Views
Why not just blame Giffords? Cannoli - 17/01/2011 06:07:14 PM 1395 Views
Indeed, why not; Sarah Palin does. Joel - 18/01/2011 06:58:01 PM 1213 Views
The left are the ones storing up hate with their pathetic slaner random thoughts - 18/01/2011 07:53:23 PM 1168 Views
At least 95% of the blame is Loughners; he's a nut, but that doesn't exonerate the demagogues. Joel - 18/01/2011 11:24:11 PM 1239 Views
0% belongs to political rhetoric from the right random thoughts - 19/01/2011 02:47:56 PM 1032 Views
Uh huh; it's absurd to mention right wing rhetoric when left wing rhetoric is the OBVIOUS culprit Joel - 19/01/2011 02:59:41 PM 1070 Views
No leftist rhetoric? You just called a bunch of people 'dangeorus lunatics' Isaac - 19/01/2011 03:37:54 PM 1023 Views
Rhetoric is one thing, but I didn't use violent imagery, did I? Joel - 20/01/2011 01:40:14 AM 1358 Views
no but the democratic party used very similar images in the same state random thoughts - 20/01/2011 06:41:19 PM 1094 Views
It's news to me, but I condemn all violent inflammatory imagery and rhetoric. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:13:18 PM 1057 Views
it was the national democrats random thoughts - 20/01/2011 08:32:01 PM 1183 Views
Then that's equally dangerous and reprehensible and more reason to loathe the DLC and DCCC. Joel - 20/01/2011 09:49:08 PM 1430 Views
The right is not the ones claiming rhetoric is the issue random thoughts - 19/01/2011 03:58:39 PM 1074 Views
"WE aren't doing it, except for when we are". Admission of guilt is a poor defense. Joel - 20/01/2011 03:25:16 AM 1046 Views
The irony of this thread is not lost on me. Jacob - 19/01/2011 04:09:01 PM 1221 Views
Exactly. *NM* Avendesora - 19/01/2011 04:51:40 PM 612 Views
Bizarre thread for that Soapbox Isaac - 19/01/2011 05:17:58 PM 967 Views
You missed the point, obviously. Jacob - 19/01/2011 06:04:23 PM 1075 Views
so you are saying it is the same old RAFO random thoughts - 19/01/2011 06:47:24 PM 1148 Views
The thread has admittedly degenerated Isaac - 19/01/2011 07:02:12 PM 994 Views
Check your NB. Noted you a response. *NM* Jacob - 19/01/2011 07:04:58 PM 577 Views
That I knew it would go this way is why I avoided looking closely for so long. Joel - 19/01/2011 11:20:44 PM 1228 Views
Hey, now. I have to step in. Camilla - 20/01/2011 04:44:49 PM 1258 Views
I'm just saying a significant link can be demonstrated. Joel - 20/01/2011 07:07:27 PM 1315 Views
Re: OK, I'm Officially Sick of the "Blood Libel" BS. dart_board - 22/01/2011 05:49:44 PM 1249 Views
We can debate whether it's coincidental, but the connections are documented fact Joel - 22/01/2011 08:17:24 PM 1231 Views
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