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Re: Voting on civil rights constitutes tyranny of the majority, not legitimate democracy. Dreaded Anomaly Send a noteboard - 26/06/2011 10:38:56 PM
I find it a tad ironic that you're engaging in fear-mongering about fear-mongering, though there's a touch of truth to what you say. Nevertheless, on an issue like this, the ultimate 'goal' has to be to convince people that there's nothing wrong with gay marriage, so a ballot on the matter is, IMO, the only way to really legitimize it. Right now I know a lot of people who were fence-sitters or lukewarms supporters of gay marriage who strongly resent the acts of the judiciary on this matter, and resent being told that they are ignorant or bigoted, the legislature passing something will not offend to that degree, the law would be viewed as legitimate, but a general ballot is the clearest and cleanest way to show the will of the people and gay marriage is neither complex technically, lengthy in concept, or a matter of grave urgency, so it's one of the relatively few matters the public could vote on, in my opinion the course of wisdom is to go that route, by and large citizens accept 51% of other citizens as more valid and swaying then a judge or even 51% of elected reps, if the ultimate goal is to get people to accept gay marriage as valid, 51% of their fellowing citizens saying 'yes it is' is far more convincing then any action of the government.


It's not fear-mongering, because it's based on what actually happened instead of simply conjecture, unlike the claims of anti-gay marriage campaigns.

The support of 51% of voters is not going to be any more convincing than 51% of the legislature to those who oppose it. (See, e.g., Obama's presidency.) That's not how people reason about social norms. The only way to build up gay marriage as acceptable is to force it through, so that it becomes part of the fabric of society.

Also, civil rights should always be a matter of urgency.
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New York Senate approves same-sex marriage - 25/06/2011 03:47:43 AM 1234 Views
Good. *NM* - 25/06/2011 07:40:52 AM 408 Views
Re: Federalism is so fucking slow. *NM* - 25/06/2011 02:47:11 PM 246 Views
I'm actually not opposed to this. - 25/06/2011 03:48:32 PM 596 Views
Makes sense to me. - 25/06/2011 04:00:07 PM 785 Views
I'm not sure why there was even any need for such explicit protection. - 25/06/2011 04:04:47 PM 589 Views
There are two reasons, depending on ones position on the issue. - 25/06/2011 06:04:27 PM 640 Views
Meh, you never know. - 26/06/2011 12:58:37 AM 735 Views
so in your only Catholics are really married? - 26/06/2011 12:04:07 AM 595 Views
Church Doctrine. - 26/06/2011 12:57:39 AM 716 Views
That is simply not true - 26/06/2011 08:20:59 AM 654 Views
Yes it is. - 26/06/2011 05:14:29 PM 669 Views
That's patently wrong in that Orthodox weddings are explicitly recognized by the Church. - 26/06/2011 02:42:00 PM 612 Views
Yeah okay... - 26/06/2011 05:16:05 PM 653 Views
Are you sure about this? - 30/06/2011 04:47:57 PM 513 Views
Dragonsoul is wrong - 01/07/2011 09:21:43 AM 665 Views
Glad to hear it. *NM* - 25/06/2011 04:05:15 PM 230 Views
Seems fine to me - 25/06/2011 05:44:30 PM 585 Views
Voting on civil rights constitutes tyranny of the majority, not legitimate democracy. - 25/06/2011 09:37:28 PM 720 Views
Direct democracy is the only true democracy. *NM* - 26/06/2011 01:01:26 AM 250 Views
Sometimes it is grand not being a True Scottsman *NM* - 26/06/2011 08:21:49 AM 240 Views
Re: Voting on civil rights constitutes tyranny of the majority, not legitimate democracy. - 26/06/2011 03:11:06 AM 665 Views
Good luck telling that to the deeply religious right. - 26/06/2011 03:20:04 AM 581 Views
I am a deeply religious member of the right, and I tell them that all the time *NM* - 26/06/2011 03:30:14 AM 251 Views
Then you're a rare person. *NM* - 26/06/2011 03:36:11 AM 252 Views
After a number of years of gay marriage - 26/06/2011 06:57:07 AM 564 Views
That's more or less true of virtually everything, not a great example - 26/06/2011 07:09:03 AM 586 Views
People shouldn't turn their own religion and/or opinion into law - 28/06/2011 07:33:48 PM 579 Views
I don't recall mentioning religion beyond confirming that I was religious - 28/06/2011 08:22:51 PM 623 Views
I admit I wasn't replying to you directly - 29/06/2011 07:20:10 AM 581 Views
I think you should give this subject a bit more thought - 29/06/2011 02:16:04 PM 625 Views
I'll address the bulk of this later - 29/06/2011 07:58:48 PM 505 Views
Believing things without strong supporting evidence is not rational. - 30/06/2011 12:11:33 AM 684 Views
Requiring different degrees of proof for things isn't particularly rational - 30/06/2011 01:14:44 PM 750 Views
I require the same standard of evidence to be confident in anything. - 30/06/2011 07:43:51 PM 1149 Views
Re: I require the same standard of evidence to be confident in anything. - 30/06/2011 08:59:00 PM 762 Views
Re: I require the same standard of evidence to be confident in anything. - 30/06/2011 09:47:30 PM 1030 Views
We're gonna have to pick this up another time - 01/07/2011 04:37:25 AM 600 Views
No, I used the word irrational to mean that it's not rational. - 30/06/2011 09:12:19 PM 612 Views
Fair Enough - 01/07/2011 04:32:44 AM 656 Views
Btw, in case you were wondering, I do like you - 01/07/2011 02:17:42 PM 664 Views
Re: Voting on civil rights constitutes tyranny of the majority, not legitimate democracy. - 26/06/2011 10:38:56 PM 762 Views
Empire State Building was lit up in rainbow colors, looked cool *NM* - 25/06/2011 08:21:03 PM 259 Views
Good. *NM* - 25/06/2011 11:41:30 PM 236 Views
So, fifth time is a charm? - 26/06/2011 06:38:26 AM 700 Views

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