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That's good to know, most of us do that, though we usually just call it common sense and experience Isaac Send a noteboard - 28/06/2011 08:55:23 PM
I don't mind discussing the various pros and cons of democracy in its various incarnations but I generally draw the line at any incarnation where you can force things down the throat of the majority while claiming they don't know better because they're too stupid to see through what you consider propaganda.

The rights of minorities should not be up to the majority, period. Democracy is government of/by/for the people, not just the majority. "Majority rule with minority rights" is the correct first order description of that principle, not just "majority rule."


No, nobody's rights should be up to anyone else, unfortunately they have to be, for those of us who support democracy, the reason we entrust it to a majority is we distrust them less than the minority or the individual. We also enshrine personal rights whenever possible inside a document that requires prolonged super-majorities to change, so some kneejerk reaction from the populace doesn't either eradicate them or invent new ones.

Also, describing legalizing gay marriage as "forcing it down the throat of the majority" is a bit much. No one is being forced to get a gay marriage, and people can still consider it morally wrong if they desire, just like adultery and other actions which are nevertheless legal. The point is that allowing gay marriage helps a minority and doesn't actually harm the majority, so there is no good reason not to allow it.


Beg Pardon, you're the one who used the word 'forcing' and did it in regard to the majority. I am no more fond of the tyranny of the majority than you, but I'm also not fond of the tyranny of the minority either. And history is generally full of a lot more apparently wise and reasonable people who engaged in tyranny because they thought they knew what was best for the lowly masses than it was off frothing megalomaniac monsters who ruled on whim and spouted of cliche villain line, history just tends to rename the former as the latter when the next self-righteous bastard cuts their head off and declares themselves wise and benevolent, taken as a whole I prefer to take a whole bunch of ordinary people, sit them down and let both sides explain their POV, and then ask them what to do, it tends to work better, frankly I trust them to act morally more than I do politicians.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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New York Senate approves same-sex marriage - 25/06/2011 03:47:43 AM 1234 Views
Good. *NM* - 25/06/2011 07:40:52 AM 408 Views
Re: Federalism is so fucking slow. *NM* - 25/06/2011 02:47:11 PM 246 Views
I'm actually not opposed to this. - 25/06/2011 03:48:32 PM 597 Views
Makes sense to me. - 25/06/2011 04:00:07 PM 786 Views
I'm not sure why there was even any need for such explicit protection. - 25/06/2011 04:04:47 PM 589 Views
There are two reasons, depending on ones position on the issue. - 25/06/2011 06:04:27 PM 641 Views
Meh, you never know. - 26/06/2011 12:58:37 AM 735 Views
so in your only Catholics are really married? - 26/06/2011 12:04:07 AM 596 Views
Church Doctrine. - 26/06/2011 12:57:39 AM 717 Views
That is simply not true - 26/06/2011 08:20:59 AM 655 Views
Yes it is. - 26/06/2011 05:14:29 PM 669 Views
That's patently wrong in that Orthodox weddings are explicitly recognized by the Church. - 26/06/2011 02:42:00 PM 613 Views
Yeah okay... - 26/06/2011 05:16:05 PM 654 Views
Are you sure about this? - 30/06/2011 04:47:57 PM 514 Views
Dragonsoul is wrong - 01/07/2011 09:21:43 AM 665 Views
Glad to hear it. *NM* - 25/06/2011 04:05:15 PM 230 Views
Seems fine to me - 25/06/2011 05:44:30 PM 586 Views
Voting on civil rights constitutes tyranny of the majority, not legitimate democracy. - 25/06/2011 09:37:28 PM 720 Views
Direct democracy is the only true democracy. *NM* - 26/06/2011 01:01:26 AM 250 Views
Sometimes it is grand not being a True Scottsman *NM* - 26/06/2011 08:21:49 AM 240 Views
Re: Voting on civil rights constitutes tyranny of the majority, not legitimate democracy. - 26/06/2011 03:11:06 AM 666 Views
Good luck telling that to the deeply religious right. - 26/06/2011 03:20:04 AM 582 Views
I am a deeply religious member of the right, and I tell them that all the time *NM* - 26/06/2011 03:30:14 AM 251 Views
Then you're a rare person. *NM* - 26/06/2011 03:36:11 AM 252 Views
After a number of years of gay marriage - 26/06/2011 06:57:07 AM 565 Views
That's more or less true of virtually everything, not a great example - 26/06/2011 07:09:03 AM 587 Views
People shouldn't turn their own religion and/or opinion into law - 28/06/2011 07:33:48 PM 580 Views
I don't recall mentioning religion beyond confirming that I was religious - 28/06/2011 08:22:51 PM 624 Views
I admit I wasn't replying to you directly - 29/06/2011 07:20:10 AM 581 Views
I think you should give this subject a bit more thought - 29/06/2011 02:16:04 PM 626 Views
I'll address the bulk of this later - 29/06/2011 07:58:48 PM 506 Views
Believing things without strong supporting evidence is not rational. - 30/06/2011 12:11:33 AM 685 Views
Requiring different degrees of proof for things isn't particularly rational - 30/06/2011 01:14:44 PM 751 Views
I require the same standard of evidence to be confident in anything. - 30/06/2011 07:43:51 PM 1149 Views
Re: I require the same standard of evidence to be confident in anything. - 30/06/2011 08:59:00 PM 763 Views
Re: I require the same standard of evidence to be confident in anything. - 30/06/2011 09:47:30 PM 1031 Views
We're gonna have to pick this up another time - 01/07/2011 04:37:25 AM 601 Views
No, I used the word irrational to mean that it's not rational. - 30/06/2011 09:12:19 PM 612 Views
Fair Enough - 01/07/2011 04:32:44 AM 657 Views
Btw, in case you were wondering, I do like you - 01/07/2011 02:17:42 PM 665 Views
Re: Voting on civil rights constitutes tyranny of the majority, not legitimate democracy. - 26/06/2011 10:38:56 PM 762 Views
I think you should give your fellow citizens a bit more trust and respect - 27/06/2011 05:41:52 PM 558 Views
I'm all for occasionally forcing stuff down people's throats... - 28/06/2011 11:44:12 AM 552 Views
My expectations are guided by psychology and history. - 28/06/2011 07:08:06 PM 665 Views
That's good to know, most of us do that, though we usually just call it common sense and experience - 28/06/2011 08:55:23 PM 695 Views
Empire State Building was lit up in rainbow colors, looked cool *NM* - 25/06/2011 08:21:03 PM 259 Views
Good. *NM* - 25/06/2011 11:41:30 PM 236 Views
So, fifth time is a charm? - 26/06/2011 06:38:26 AM 700 Views

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