The same people who pay for everyone else whose actions render them vegetables.
Joel Send a noteboard - 06/07/2011 01:50:20 AM
resulted in his becoming a vegetable? Do you really think that he would have been able to pay for it if he would have ended up in the hospital for months and rehab for months after that? Do you know how it effects the driver and passengers involved in an accident with a motorcycle? How it effects the witnesses? I am good with a helmet law.
If they can get insurance that would cover those possibilities then it is their business and their business only.
If they can get insurance that would cover those possibilities then it is their business and their business only.
Either his insurance, if he had coverage and they couldn't find a way to drop him, or the state. However, the fact a LOT of people do dangerous things and others end up paying for all or most of their medical care should NOT be sufficient cause for society to dictate how they live their lives. That's not just a slippery slope, it's a slippery precipice leading to bans on junk food along with drugs (which of course includes drugs like nicotine and alcohol) and requiring annual physicals and regular exercise along with motorcycle helmets. Should people abstain from the former and participate in the latter? Unquestionably. Should society FORCE each member to do so simply to save itself money? Unquestionably not.
Maybe one day a majority will decide it's in societys best interest for everyone to vote Republican or become Muslim, and maybe they'll enforce that with appropriate legislation, but we won't be living in a free state anymore, we'll be slaves to popular opinion that prescribes and proscribes every facet of our very existence. After all, motorcycles are far more likely in general to be involved in accidents, and those accidents are more likely to result in serious injury when they occur, with a similar financial impact on the rest of the community, so why stop at requiring helmets when we should really just ban motorcycles entirely? For that matter, auto accidents kill tens of thousands annually and injure many more, but when two people walking bump into each other they rarely get more than a bruise, so why not ban all vehicles for the sake of the public good?
Like I said, it's hard to make a compelling case that allowing people to ride without helmets infringes on the rights of others more than requiring it infringes on theirs. Helmets restrict riders vision and hearing, so while they make accidents more survivable, they also make them more likely. Which of those risks is more desirable on balance is a judgement call, and I much prefer to leave judgement calls to the individuals directly involved than to a peripheral group likely to bear some indirect medical cost regardless. If I happen to be one of the people trapped in a burning car by a seatbelt that won't release or crushed when it rolls and my seatbelt prevented me being thrown clear, the fact that requiring them lowers societys indirect medical cost OVERALL won't be much comfort to me, and I shouldn't be required to sacrifice my life for their bottom line. My body, my life, my choice, a concept NY seems to grasp fairly well in other areas, but apparently not this one. It's hard on witnesses when a bungy jumpers cord snaps or a sky divers parachute doesn't open, too, but I don't think that reason enough to ban either, even with the extra costs their otherwise unnecessary medical care can inflict on the community. That doesn't mean I don't think both are dangerously foolish, it simply means I don't demand the right to stop everyone else from doing anything I think dangerously foolish.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
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LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 06/07/2011 at 01:58:03 AM
You can't make this stuff up: Helmet law protester dies in crash
- 05/07/2011 08:47:14 PM
1070 Views
Kinda undermines his protest
*NM*
- 05/07/2011 09:01:50 PM
318 Views
*NM*
- 05/07/2011 09:01:50 PM
318 Views
How so? He wasn't demanding the right to survive crashes when only a helmet makes that possible.
- 05/07/2011 11:06:44 PM
704 Views
New York feels that people should have to wear helmets for their own safety
- 05/07/2011 11:20:36 PM
662 Views
He felt his own safety was his own concern.
- 06/07/2011 12:07:05 AM
598 Views
Who do you think would have ended up paying for his care for the rest of his life if the accident
- 06/07/2011 01:08:49 AM
756 Views
The same people who pay for everyone else whose actions render them vegetables.
- 06/07/2011 01:50:20 AM
878 Views
Maybe a more effective argument you could use against me would be pointing out
- 06/07/2011 02:33:21 AM
673 Views
what a fricking idiot
- 05/07/2011 10:02:17 PM
835 Views
That's your opinion to which you're entitled.
- 05/07/2011 11:19:36 PM
1094 Views
Anarchy, baby! *NM*
- 06/07/2011 12:58:23 AM
543 Views
Sorry, as an advocate of civil rights (which especially includes minorities) I oppose anarchy.
- 06/07/2011 01:18:19 AM
755 Views
The public's nose is on the line here too.
- 06/07/2011 01:47:08 AM
819 Views
So my increased ease of hearing/seeing vehicles and other hazards isn't worth $1200.
- 06/07/2011 02:25:53 AM
828 Views
I understand the pov, I had a BF who felt that same way. It's still much like childish defiance.
- 06/07/2011 01:26:15 AM
995 Views
In part it's a matter of principle, but if we really want to analyze it there's some deeper validity
- 06/07/2011 02:13:05 AM
792 Views
you keep spreading falsehoods, stop it please
- 06/07/2011 02:49:01 AM
942 Views
Sounds like your real argument is with the other bikers; I'm just reiterating their arguments.
- 06/07/2011 03:38:39 AM
881 Views
Uh Joel...
- 06/07/2011 03:38:24 AM
704 Views
Agreed, having others in the car does make a difference.
- 06/07/2011 03:47:53 AM
776 Views
Hence why your "I wouldn't wear a seatbelt in the back seat" comment didn't make a lot of sense
- 06/07/2011 07:38:50 PM
751 Views
- 06/07/2011 07:38:50 PM
751 Views
Depends on whether the driver, rather than the law, is the one insisting.
- 06/07/2011 08:06:24 PM
618 Views
You'd place your own comfort over other people's safety?
- 06/07/2011 11:37:00 PM
643 Views
It's more a comfort issue than anything else; it's not solely one.
- 06/07/2011 11:56:28 PM
1126 Views
Hold the phone here...
- 06/07/2011 07:49:10 PM
1092 Views
+1 *NM*
- 06/07/2011 08:42:14 PM
382 Views
You agree with him that the abortion debate is about a mothers convenience versus the babys life?
- 06/07/2011 10:48:52 PM
781 Views
im not bringing abortion into this, its a separate issue *NM*
- 06/07/2011 10:56:17 PM
374 Views
It's really not.
- 07/07/2011 12:20:10 AM
804 Views
i'm really not
- 07/07/2011 03:34:23 PM
889 Views
Fine as far as it goes, but public/private only matters to the extent others are affected.
- 09/07/2011 11:15:33 AM
846 Views
Holding the phone here might be good, yes....
- 06/07/2011 10:33:46 PM
863 Views
- 06/07/2011 10:33:46 PM
863 Views
See...that's the difference between you and me
- 06/07/2011 10:56:53 PM
959 Views
Apparently so; "completely anarchy as long as its regulated to one's body" sounds nonsensical to me.
- 06/07/2011 11:44:50 PM
941 Views
I'm with Joel. I always buckle up/helmet up, but I think such laws are asinine
- 06/07/2011 02:30:04 AM
616 Views
why not just ban motorcycles all together, they are much more dangerous than cars
- 06/07/2011 05:39:51 PM
644 Views
Helmets help save lives. 'Onest.
- 07/07/2011 04:40:42 PM
820 Views
So do not smoking, eating right and regular exercise, but we haven't made them mandatory.
- 09/07/2011 11:04:58 AM
798 Views

*NM*