I have gotten used to you being right for the wrong reasons.
Joel Send a noteboard - 23/08/2012 07:42:32 PM

Ultimately, the frequent difficulty of establishing rape
I go into this a bit in my reply to Roland00. to be just that is just one more reason goverment should not usurp control over peoples bodies.
I'd phrase more as "the frequent difficulty of establishing rape is one more reason government should not be granting exceptions to take a human life." I suppose it all comes down to the life vs privacy issue. From the standpoint of human life, the complications of demonstrating rape is a good reason not to start making excuses for taking life for convenience (which is all that abortion ever is).It does not come down to life vs. privacy until/unless we establish a life (other than the womans) is involved. No one claims killing babies is OK, that womens lives simply take precedence over their childrens. It comes down to life vs. possible life, a decision that should not be made by anyone not facing its consequences.
What I can't get is the seeming disconnect in some people's minds between the authority of the government over people's bodies and the provisions they are supposed to offer for the same. How can someone say "my body, my choice" and at the same time support the government funding repairs or improvements to that same body? The excuse for the government takeover of GM was that since the government was bailing them out, the government had a right to ensure their money was spent properly. The natural extension of this logic is where the "death panels" came up, despite the disingenuous claims of Obama's supporters that there was no such wording or explicit provision in the bill or for that matter, any serious proposal for government-provided medical treatment funds. The fact is, funding life or death treatments ultimately gives the government authority over the receipt of those treatments, and thus the power over life and death.
The only viable choices are ceding the government control over your body, having the government write everyone a blank check for any sort of medicine, care or treatment they wish, or removing the government from all involvement with "life" except the elementary function of protecting people from assult, abuse and murder at one another's hands.
The only viable choices are ceding the government control over your body, having the government write everyone a blank check for any sort of medicine, care or treatment they wish, or removing the government from all involvement with "life" except the elementary function of protecting people from assult, abuse and murder at one another's hands.
Denying coverage for life-extending treatment of terminal conditions does not prevent it, only prevent its guarantee. Government allows both that treatment and abortion, but funds neither. What is disingenuous is conservatives attacking Robomacare for not covering life-extending terminal care when they do not want it covering ANYTHING (especially since the whole thing was their idea.) It is also disingenuous when conservatives demand government protect fetal life that may be human beings BUT do nothing to protect that life post-natally, when it is undeniably a human being. It is unsurprisingly like the Heritage Foundations healthcare mandate: Government requires everyone have what it does nothing to ensure anyone can maintain, whether that be personal healthcare or a childs life.
I do find it interesting, given the other serious charges flying both ways this year, that Akins ambiguous comment may be what costs the GOP a Senate majority.
It serves them right, because from a consitutional perspective, this is not remotely the concern of a Representative or a Senator. At most, you might say it's an issue because the Senate approves SCotUS appointees, but it is not properly a SCotUS issue either. The real position (and the official position of the GOP prior to the neocon mentality gaining prominence) should be that abortion is a state by state issue, and barring a Constitutional Amendment one way or another, completely beyond consideration of the federal government.From a constitutional perspective, civil rights is not a state matter; we tried that and, in addition to being immoral, it ended in Americas bloodiest war, followed by a century of Jim Crow. I agree they deserve it though; the GOP platform calls for a federal abortion ban, no exceptions, so all the party outrage over Akins comments is about him publicly admitting the official party position the rest of the GOP is desperately trying to conceal from the rest of the country.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
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LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Rape - British left wing politician takes on American right wing politician in stupidest comment off
22/08/2012 11:03:50 PM
- 1081 Views
Galloway - I'll always remember him for being a Cat to be honest.
22/08/2012 11:14:58 PM
- 650 Views
That is second on my list of things I remember about him, probably down to third now.
22/08/2012 11:21:17 PM
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People who support abortion only for rape are the most retarded in the whole debate
23/08/2012 01:05:17 AM
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Bullshit
23/08/2012 05:01:24 AM
- 522 Views
That's an interesting variation with some legitimacy, though not compelling, to me anyway
23/08/2012 07:25:50 AM
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That is a dangerous line of logic.
23/08/2012 09:26:25 PM
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Okay, that really wasn't connected to my comments
24/08/2012 02:39:21 AM
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Sure it was, but we can do it your way.
24/08/2012 04:10:37 AM
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Yet you don't, you jump the gun here too
24/08/2012 04:37:02 AM
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I was trying to cut to the chase; like I say, I followed your logic: I just disliked where it led.
24/08/2012 06:10:40 AM
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Disliking the conclusion doesn't invalidate the logic, and stop veering out of the debate boundary
24/08/2012 06:43:43 AM
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No, the logics invalidity does that, though you do not seem to like its conclusion either.
24/08/2012 07:48:21 AM
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I'm not even sure what that means
25/08/2012 12:38:56 AM
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The logic is invalid because invalid, however either of us feels about where it leads.
25/08/2012 10:37:34 PM
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Okay, we're done here
26/08/2012 05:36:28 AM
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Quotes are not my opinion.
26/08/2012 06:37:19 AM
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You'd really benefit from post-secondary education.
26/08/2012 12:14:02 PM
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Further post-secondary education, you mean; probably so, though not for the reasons you stated.
26/08/2012 08:20:45 PM
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Haven't you and Joel had about the same amount of post-secondary education, actually?
27/08/2012 01:31:43 AM
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It has nothing to do with consequences or responsibility. It's about life & privacy. Period
23/08/2012 12:04:55 PM
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To be honest, I think people MIGHT be overreacting to both comments.
23/08/2012 01:33:54 AM
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Really? *NM*
23/08/2012 06:33:46 AM
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Yeah.
23/08/2012 06:40:05 AM
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I expect it is more of a "stating the obvious" response.
23/08/2012 02:01:18 PM
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Heh, I didn't think so.
23/08/2012 05:44:55 PM
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I said Akins comments needed MORE context.
23/08/2012 08:50:09 PM
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Yes, I saw that.
23/08/2012 10:28:50 PM
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Re: Yes, I saw that.
23/08/2012 11:04:40 PM
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Re: Yes, I saw that.
23/08/2012 11:08:46 PM
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Science sometimes produces shocking discoveries.
23/08/2012 11:28:47 PM
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And sometimes one doctor with an agenda pulls "facts" out of the air
23/08/2012 11:37:37 PM
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This
23/08/2012 08:50:43 PM
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Eh
23/08/2012 10:37:15 PM
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I read it the same way Jen did
23/08/2012 08:49:16 PM
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Why?
23/08/2012 08:51:59 PM
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See your reply here - the bit before the comma then the bit after it.
23/08/2012 09:06:20 PM
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You can see where there's room for doubt in that though, surely.
23/08/2012 09:20:19 PM
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I accept there are exceptions under some circumstances - but they are exceptions, not the rule.
23/08/2012 09:44:36 PM
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Well, I have to clarify...
23/08/2012 10:28:13 PM
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Re: Well, I have to clarify...
23/08/2012 10:50:59 PM
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Re: Well, I have to clarify...
23/08/2012 11:15:50 PM
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Re: Well, I have to clarify...
23/08/2012 11:28:56 PM
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couple things
24/08/2012 01:57:04 AM
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Re: couple things
24/08/2012 02:26:23 PM
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You may be talking about Galloway and not Assange, but Galloway was talking about Assange.
24/08/2012 06:28:00 PM
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I can
23/08/2012 11:05:05 PM
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OK
23/08/2012 09:35:35 PM
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Bullshit.
23/08/2012 10:00:54 PM
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Re: Bullshit.
23/08/2012 10:52:02 PM
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Agreeing without agreeing.
23/08/2012 12:24:10 PM
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I have gotten used to you being right for the wrong reasons.
23/08/2012 07:42:32 PM
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I don't know about Galloway but Akin is being made to pay for his commnets
23/08/2012 04:37:12 PM
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Um, I'm not sure about that last bit
23/08/2012 10:43:15 PM
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this issue has been discussed none stop for two days and this almost never mentioned
24/08/2012 12:28:25 PM
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Yeah, I'm curious about that last point as well.
24/08/2012 02:53:43 AM
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McCaskills campaign ran ads during the GOP primary calling Akin the "most conservative" candidate.
24/08/2012 03:33:18 AM
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Interesting.
24/08/2012 04:49:51 AM
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Yeah, that about covers it; personally, I am developing a grudging respect for Akin.
24/08/2012 06:30:43 AM
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no it isn't kinda true
24/08/2012 12:50:53 PM
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The MO GOP voters who nominated him for being "most conservative" think it is.
25/08/2012 10:52:02 PM
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