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I gotta say I am with Paul ironclad Send a noteboard - 24/08/2012 12:27:44 AM
If this kind of thing happens in an established long-term relationship, I think we can all agree that, while many people may still find it a dubious thing to do, calling it rape is absurd.

But I have been trying to decide how I feel about this. I think I would feel extremely yucky if I woke up and my SO were going to town. That person wouldn't be needing me, just a ... uh, orifice. Ew. And I can't see that I'd prosecute my SO, but I am actually pretty sure I'd be shitty about it for quite a while, and that's making me wonder if the real definition shouldn't be rape. I kinda don't want it to be, but the comparison to the blow up doll isn't far off.

Of course this was not a long-term relationship, or even a relationship at all, just a one night stand. But that one night stand having happened does create a certain grey area - it makes some things natural enough that would've been creepy or downright sexual harassment if he'd done them to someone he had no sexual relationship of any kind with. I think just about every sane person would agree that actually having sex with her while she was asleep goes far beyond the level of increased familiarity which their prior consensual sex made justifiable - but it's hard to draw clear lines in that.

You are definitely right that it's hard to draw clear lines; I know what I think, but I can see how someone could have been confused. Especially if sleepy.


...even though, as always, your post is thoughtful enough not to sound judgmental.

But yes, there are Ifs and stuff. Most of them have been mentioned by now.
Just this: I know a girl whose fantasy it was to be woken by actual sex, not foreplay. By definition that could never actually be consensual in the beginning (because she is asleep). It would also most likely happen with a person she spent the night with in the first place and that person could probably assume she was up for it again in the morning. Or maybe not, and a short "Stop it!" would already end the whole affair. I hope you can see the two points I am getting at: People are into the weirdest stuff and it's hard to judge such situations from the outside. That's the judges job, not mine, thankfully.
I am not saying this couldn't possibly have been rape, like this politician. Maybe it was. Or maybe her story isn't the whole truth. From what I gathered she seemed very fond of Assange the night before. In the end there are only two people who know if this was rape or not. I would not dare to cast stones at either one of them from over here.
*MySmiley*

You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling.
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Rape - British left wing politician takes on American right wing politician in stupidest comment off - 22/08/2012 11:03:50 PM 1056 Views
Galloway - I'll always remember him for being a Cat to be honest. - 22/08/2012 11:14:58 PM 626 Views
Erm... what on earth is that? - 22/08/2012 11:19:13 PM 448 Views
Celebrity Big Brother in the UK - 22/08/2012 11:22:17 PM 495 Views
People who support abortion only for rape are the most retarded in the whole debate - 23/08/2012 01:05:17 AM 596 Views
Bullshit - 23/08/2012 05:01:24 AM 502 Views
That's an interesting variation with some legitimacy, though not compelling, to me anyway - 23/08/2012 07:25:50 AM 520 Views
That is a dangerous line of logic. - 23/08/2012 09:26:25 PM 752 Views
Okay, that really wasn't connected to my comments - 24/08/2012 02:39:21 AM 453 Views
Sure it was, but we can do it your way. - 24/08/2012 04:10:37 AM 523 Views
Yet you don't, you jump the gun here too - 24/08/2012 04:37:02 AM 537 Views
I was trying to cut to the chase; like I say, I followed your logic: I just disliked where it led. - 24/08/2012 06:10:40 AM 619 Views
Disliking the conclusion doesn't invalidate the logic, and stop veering out of the debate boundary - 24/08/2012 06:43:43 AM 572 Views
No, the logics invalidity does that, though you do not seem to like its conclusion either. - 24/08/2012 07:48:21 AM 732 Views
I'm not even sure what that means - 25/08/2012 12:38:56 AM 463 Views
The logic is invalid because invalid, however either of us feels about where it leads. - 25/08/2012 10:37:34 PM 527 Views
Okay, we're done here - 26/08/2012 05:36:28 AM 495 Views
Quotes are not my opinion. - 26/08/2012 06:37:19 AM 469 Views
You'd really benefit from post-secondary education. - 26/08/2012 12:14:02 PM 559 Views
Haven't you and Joel had about the same amount of post-secondary education, actually? - 27/08/2012 01:31:43 AM 587 Views
T^T - 27/08/2012 04:39:33 AM 512 Views
Is that the emoticon for perky titties? *NM* - 27/08/2012 11:07:06 PM 250 Views
He is an absolute berk. *NM* - 23/08/2012 01:08:58 AM 453 Views
To be honest, I think people MIGHT be overreacting to both comments. - 23/08/2012 01:33:54 AM 580 Views
Really? *NM* - 23/08/2012 06:33:46 AM 329 Views
Yeah. - 23/08/2012 06:40:05 AM 527 Views
I expect it is more of a "stating the obvious" response. - 23/08/2012 02:01:18 PM 521 Views
Heh, I didn't think so. - 23/08/2012 05:44:55 PM 565 Views
I said Akins comments needed MORE context. - 23/08/2012 08:50:09 PM 655 Views
Yes, I saw that. - 23/08/2012 10:28:50 PM 475 Views
Re: Yes, I saw that. - 23/08/2012 11:04:40 PM 502 Views
Re: Yes, I saw that. - 23/08/2012 11:08:46 PM 480 Views
Science sometimes produces shocking discoveries. - 23/08/2012 11:28:47 PM 504 Views
And sometimes one doctor with an agenda pulls "facts" out of the air - 23/08/2012 11:37:37 PM 547 Views
No argument there. - 23/08/2012 11:46:01 PM 537 Views
This - 23/08/2012 08:50:43 PM 551 Views
Okay. I misunderstood. Sorry. *NM* - 23/08/2012 09:58:20 PM 299 Views
Eh - 23/08/2012 10:37:15 PM 494 Views
Well, I didn't take it that way. - 23/08/2012 10:42:01 PM 565 Views
Good - 24/08/2012 02:20:27 AM 563 Views
Ah, I can understand if that is the case. - 23/08/2012 07:46:38 PM 527 Views
I read it the same way Jen did - 23/08/2012 08:49:16 PM 462 Views
Why? - 23/08/2012 08:51:59 PM 540 Views
See your reply here - the bit before the comma then the bit after it. - 23/08/2012 09:06:20 PM 528 Views
You can see where there's room for doubt in that though, surely. - 23/08/2012 09:20:19 PM 505 Views
I accept there are exceptions under some circumstances - but they are exceptions, not the rule. - 23/08/2012 09:44:36 PM 514 Views
Well, I have to clarify... - 23/08/2012 10:28:13 PM 488 Views
Re: Well, I have to clarify... - 23/08/2012 10:50:59 PM 455 Views
Re: Well, I have to clarify... - 23/08/2012 11:15:50 PM 458 Views
Re: Well, I have to clarify... - 23/08/2012 11:28:56 PM 560 Views
couple things - 24/08/2012 01:57:04 AM 467 Views
Re: couple things - 24/08/2012 02:26:23 PM 500 Views
Re: couple things - 24/08/2012 02:45:38 PM 447 Views
Re: couple things - 25/08/2012 12:11:03 AM 493 Views
You may be talking about Galloway and not Assange, but Galloway was talking about Assange. - 24/08/2012 06:28:00 PM 474 Views
Ew. - 24/08/2012 06:56:27 PM 510 Views
Yes, that about covers it. - 24/08/2012 07:42:13 PM 480 Views
Yes, I was talking about Galoway and what he said - 25/08/2012 12:15:15 AM 619 Views
Re: Well, I have to clarify... - 23/08/2012 11:34:51 PM 546 Views
I can - 23/08/2012 11:05:05 PM 435 Views
I gotta say I am with Paul - 24/08/2012 12:27:44 AM 535 Views
Hm. - 24/08/2012 02:08:33 AM 451 Views
OK - 23/08/2012 09:35:35 PM 478 Views
Bullshit. - 23/08/2012 10:00:54 PM 447 Views
Re: Bullshit. - 23/08/2012 10:52:02 PM 639 Views
To start again then Joel - 23/08/2012 11:14:07 PM 463 Views
My mistake then, sorry. - 23/08/2012 11:32:34 PM 501 Views
Agreeing without agreeing. - 23/08/2012 12:24:10 PM 563 Views
I have gotten used to you being right for the wrong reasons. - 23/08/2012 07:42:32 PM 472 Views
Yes - 23/08/2012 06:34:38 AM 631 Views
Indeed - 23/08/2012 08:47:40 PM 458 Views
I don't know about Galloway but Akin is being made to pay for his commnets - 23/08/2012 04:37:12 PM 556 Views
Um, I'm not sure about that last bit - 23/08/2012 10:43:15 PM 476 Views
this issue has been discussed none stop for two days and this almost never mentioned - 24/08/2012 12:28:25 PM 475 Views
well, that is where I'm confused. - 24/08/2012 07:03:16 PM 502 Views
Maybe I watch to much CNN - 24/08/2012 07:30:23 PM 451 Views
Yeah, I'm curious about that last point as well. - 24/08/2012 02:53:43 AM 528 Views
McCaskills campaign ran ads during the GOP primary calling Akin the "most conservative" candidate. - 24/08/2012 03:33:18 AM 675 Views
Interesting. - 24/08/2012 04:49:51 AM 466 Views
no it isn't kinda true - 24/08/2012 12:50:53 PM 445 Views

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