That's a bit naive. And instead of evolution, I should have said "ever-changing"
beetnemesis Send a noteboard - 12/12/2012 06:55:41 PM
You're basically a perfect example of someone I was just complaining about- that just because unions come with their own set of problems, everything about them is terrible and unneeded.
My point about child laborers and workplace safety is that unions improved those things.
And, more to the point, they would not have happened WITHOUT unions.
Yes, we have a minimum wage, now. But do you really think that would have happened if so many unions hadn't fought for fair wages over the years?
And so now you and others say, "oh, they were great, but they're a thing of the past." Which is just... odd. Have big companies suddenly gotten more altruistic? Have people working to barely make ends meet somehow become less exploitable?
I of course agree that unions- especially large, entrenched unions- can have their own problems. But it's pretty naive to say, "Oh, the unions fixed all those problems in the past, so now we don't need them- the federal government can just take care of it!"
My point about child laborers and workplace safety is that unions improved those things.
And, more to the point, they would not have happened WITHOUT unions.
Yes, we have a minimum wage, now. But do you really think that would have happened if so many unions hadn't fought for fair wages over the years?
And so now you and others say, "oh, they were great, but they're a thing of the past." Which is just... odd. Have big companies suddenly gotten more altruistic? Have people working to barely make ends meet somehow become less exploitable?
I of course agree that unions- especially large, entrenched unions- can have their own problems. But it's pretty naive to say, "Oh, the unions fixed all those problems in the past, so now we don't need them- the federal government can just take care of it!"
I amuse myself.
Congrats to Michigan - The Newest Right to Work State!
12/12/2012 04:59:29 AM
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It's great that they were able to do it.
12/12/2012 02:45:39 PM
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I just think it's so... odd... that people don't realize things constantly evolve.
12/12/2012 05:18:11 PM
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Isn't this a symptom of evolution?
12/12/2012 06:12:36 PM
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we also don't need unions to keep people on the job who are bad at it.....
12/12/2012 06:20:22 PM
- 633 Views
Unions are all about protecting underperforming workers and the union leadership.
12/12/2012 06:37:41 PM
- 572 Views
That's a bit naive. And instead of evolution, I should have said "ever-changing"
12/12/2012 06:55:41 PM
- 520 Views
No, big companies aren't all of a sudden altruistic...
12/12/2012 07:33:16 PM
- 576 Views
your three examples are of employers demanding workers do more for less
12/12/2012 07:41:12 PM
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Ok...employeers demanding people to do more for less.
13/12/2012 10:56:32 PM
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the point was that the union did not strike, the workers were prevented from working by management
13/12/2012 11:25:07 PM
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What are the downsides of Unions? *NM*
12/12/2012 10:30:17 PM
- 382 Views
What are the upsides for anyone BUT unions?
13/12/2012 11:58:23 PM
- 667 Views
the answer to the political influence is hard campaign contribution limits from individuals only
14/12/2012 12:27:57 AM
- 564 Views
I was hoping to hear what a union supporter recognizes as flaws of unions.
14/12/2012 08:55:46 PM
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Re: I was hoping to hear what a union supporter recognizes as flaws of unions.
14/12/2012 10:07:39 PM
- 489 Views
it's great?
12/12/2012 05:29:00 PM
- 616 Views
Pissed off people....
12/12/2012 06:16:49 PM
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again, what industry will those people looking for work go to in michigan?
12/12/2012 06:23:47 PM
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As a native Michigander, I can tell you it's great.
12/12/2012 06:26:53 PM
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+1 - This is going to help bring jobs to MI and benefit the auto industry.
12/12/2012 06:33:43 PM
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unions still aren't the problem in michigan, it's reliance on a single industry as the main employer
12/12/2012 06:37:44 PM
- 534 Views
Michigan is one of the fastest growing areas for the tech industry. Michigan is starting to expand.
19/12/2012 03:28:18 AM
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So let me get this straight.
13/12/2012 03:54:14 PM
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Yes, it's a good thing, a very, very good thing!
13/12/2012 05:45:43 PM
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no "right to work" in MO, MT, CO, NM, KY, WV, OH, MA, NY, DE, MN, WI, PA, OR, WA, HI, AK, MD
13/12/2012 06:56:17 PM
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Just to play devil's advocate...
13/12/2012 09:12:02 PM
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Re: Just to play devil's advocate...
13/12/2012 09:57:07 PM
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I, for one, stipulate that you are correct.
13/12/2012 10:06:34 PM
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Re: I, for one, stipulate that you are correct.
13/12/2012 10:18:27 PM
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How is that wrong?
13/12/2012 10:52:24 PM
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it's wrong because it ultimately drives down *all* workers' pay, not just the unions
13/12/2012 11:26:00 PM
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Your argument is completely fallacious.
14/12/2012 04:17:58 AM
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A brilliant argument...
14/12/2012 07:23:53 AM
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You are assuming that business owners do not value "on the job" experience
14/12/2012 09:03:35 AM
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the only reason unions are obsolete is because republicans don't want them supporting dems
14/12/2012 06:43:56 PM
- 546 Views
Unions being obsolete has almost nothing to do with internal American politics
14/12/2012 07:10:38 PM
- 472 Views
i would disagree, at least with respect to the spate of "right to work" laws being pushed through
14/12/2012 07:32:26 PM
- 551 Views
Unions aren't going to help rein in CEO pay or corporate profits.
14/12/2012 10:48:51 PM
- 534 Views
i'll take you one further....
14/12/2012 11:24:26 PM
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And so the destruction of the Middle Class continues. *NM*
13/12/2012 03:43:36 PM
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The unions already destroyed the middle class.....
13/12/2012 05:46:56 PM
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Do you really not understand why unions existed in the first place?
14/12/2012 06:55:27 AM
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Why they first existed is not in issue. It is if they STILL serve a useful or detrimental purpose.
14/12/2012 03:00:48 PM
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Yeah, moron! What is wrong with you, that you do not blindly accept his underlying premise?
19/12/2012 01:35:37 AM
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Damn, I agree with Anonymous2000.
14/12/2012 04:29:36 AM
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This must be a trying time for you.
14/12/2012 07:06:56 AM
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Callandor sees the light, perhaps it's time for you as well! *NM*
14/12/2012 02:08:47 PM
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HOW they are doing it..is bullshit
13/12/2012 06:33:09 PM
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How? Residents of MI elected a Republican legislature and Governor.....
13/12/2012 09:25:43 PM
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You have the right to work, not the right to vote in an election as you see fit and keep your job. *NM*
15/12/2012 03:23:13 AM
- 344 Views