it's wrong because it ultimately drives down *all* workers' pay, not just the unions
moondog Send a noteboard - 13/12/2012 11:26:00 PM
"Unions cannot collect dues at union shops." Isn't it more that they cannot force someone to pay it (or even be a member of the union)?
How is this wrong? And here's the best part of it...and it kind of proves my point. It is not the union's shop. It is the company's shop. They are the ones who are liable for everything. It is their property, their equipment, and ultimately their business. If an individual wants to be part of the union, to have them be their advocate, then they pay the dues and get the benefits thereof.
If the individual wants to venture on in the workplace without that advocate, then good luck.
How is any of that wrong? There are OSHA laws, discrimination laws, and pay rate laws. There is a vast network of litigation possibilities for unfair workplace treatment. How is a union relevant in this day and age? What do they offer that the above mentioned laws & an individuals merit do not account for?
~Jeordam
How is this wrong? And here's the best part of it...and it kind of proves my point. It is not the union's shop. It is the company's shop. They are the ones who are liable for everything. It is their property, their equipment, and ultimately their business. If an individual wants to be part of the union, to have them be their advocate, then they pay the dues and get the benefits thereof.
If the individual wants to venture on in the workplace without that advocate, then good luck.
How is any of that wrong? There are OSHA laws, discrimination laws, and pay rate laws. There is a vast network of litigation possibilities for unfair workplace treatment. How is a union relevant in this day and age? What do they offer that the above mentioned laws & an individuals merit do not account for?
~Jeordam
your argument is starting to sound like that scene in "Life of Brian" (and i'm paraphrasing because i don't have it memorized)
"Ok, apart from roads, schools, public safety, the aqueduct and sanitation, what have the Romans ever done for us?"
your argument also does not account for the fact that management typically intimidates workers into staying out of the unions, even when union representation is strong. by cutting out the dues of union membership, the intimidation of workers to accept more and more work for less and less pay will be more widespread.
look at the examples of caterpillar, hostess, tyson chicken and others where management took a hard line against the union, won the concessions, screwed over the workers anyway, then gave themselves big bonuses for doing so. and these are all examples where the unions were willing to limit themselves and their power for the long-term health of the companies they worked for and got screwed anyway. by limiting the power of unions, how are workers supposed to cope when management eventually screws them over? the answer is, they can't.
"The RIAA has shown a certain disregard for the creative people of the industry in their eagerness to protect the revenues of the record companies." -- Frank Zappa
"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
Congrats to Michigan - The Newest Right to Work State!
- 12/12/2012 04:59:29 AM
1624 Views
It's great that they were able to do it.
- 12/12/2012 02:45:39 PM
919 Views
I just think it's so... odd... that people don't realize things constantly evolve.
- 12/12/2012 05:18:11 PM
867 Views
Isn't this a symptom of evolution?
- 12/12/2012 06:12:36 PM
914 Views
we also don't need unions to keep people on the job who are bad at it.....
- 12/12/2012 06:20:22 PM
892 Views
Unions are all about protecting underperforming workers and the union leadership.
- 12/12/2012 06:37:41 PM
851 Views
That's a bit naive. And instead of evolution, I should have said "ever-changing"
- 12/12/2012 06:55:41 PM
792 Views
No, big companies aren't all of a sudden altruistic...
- 12/12/2012 07:33:16 PM
849 Views
your three examples are of employers demanding workers do more for less
- 12/12/2012 07:41:12 PM
938 Views
Ok...employeers demanding people to do more for less.
- 13/12/2012 10:56:32 PM
850 Views
the point was that the union did not strike, the workers were prevented from working by management
- 13/12/2012 11:25:07 PM
919 Views
What are the downsides of Unions? *NM*
- 12/12/2012 10:30:17 PM
499 Views
What are the upsides for anyone BUT unions?
- 13/12/2012 11:58:23 PM
919 Views
the answer to the political influence is hard campaign contribution limits from individuals only
- 14/12/2012 12:27:57 AM
821 Views
I was hoping to hear what a union supporter recognizes as flaws of unions.
- 14/12/2012 08:55:46 PM
950 Views
Re: I was hoping to hear what a union supporter recognizes as flaws of unions.
- 14/12/2012 10:07:39 PM
778 Views
it's great?
- 12/12/2012 05:29:00 PM
864 Views
Pissed off people....
- 12/12/2012 06:16:49 PM
796 Views
again, what industry will those people looking for work go to in michigan?
- 12/12/2012 06:23:47 PM
915 Views
As a native Michigander, I can tell you it's great.
- 12/12/2012 06:26:53 PM
801 Views
+1 - This is going to help bring jobs to MI and benefit the auto industry.
- 12/12/2012 06:33:43 PM
842 Views
unions still aren't the problem in michigan, it's reliance on a single industry as the main employer
- 12/12/2012 06:37:44 PM
782 Views
Michigan is one of the fastest growing areas for the tech industry. Michigan is starting to expand.
- 19/12/2012 03:28:18 AM
980 Views
So let me get this straight.
- 13/12/2012 03:54:14 PM
876 Views
Yes, it's a good thing, a very, very good thing!
- 13/12/2012 05:45:43 PM
835 Views
no "right to work" in MO, MT, CO, NM, KY, WV, OH, MA, NY, DE, MN, WI, PA, OR, WA, HI, AK, MD
- 13/12/2012 06:56:17 PM
863 Views
Just to play devil's advocate...
- 13/12/2012 09:12:02 PM
831 Views
Re: Just to play devil's advocate...
- 13/12/2012 09:57:07 PM
779 Views
I, for one, stipulate that you are correct.
- 13/12/2012 10:06:34 PM
862 Views
Re: I, for one, stipulate that you are correct.
- 13/12/2012 10:18:27 PM
858 Views
How is that wrong?
- 13/12/2012 10:52:24 PM
798 Views
it's wrong because it ultimately drives down *all* workers' pay, not just the unions
- 13/12/2012 11:26:00 PM
827 Views
Your argument is completely fallacious.
- 14/12/2012 04:17:58 AM
821 Views
A brilliant argument...
- 14/12/2012 07:23:53 AM
887 Views
You are assuming that business owners do not value "on the job" experience
- 14/12/2012 09:03:35 AM
969 Views
the only reason unions are obsolete is because republicans don't want them supporting dems
- 14/12/2012 06:43:56 PM
802 Views
Unions being obsolete has almost nothing to do with internal American politics
- 14/12/2012 07:10:38 PM
736 Views
i would disagree, at least with respect to the spate of "right to work" laws being pushed through
- 14/12/2012 07:32:26 PM
816 Views
Unions aren't going to help rein in CEO pay or corporate profits.
- 14/12/2012 10:48:51 PM
794 Views
i'll take you one further....
- 14/12/2012 11:24:26 PM
769 Views
And so the destruction of the Middle Class continues. *NM*
- 13/12/2012 03:43:36 PM
409 Views
The unions already destroyed the middle class.....
- 13/12/2012 05:46:56 PM
834 Views
Do you really not understand why unions existed in the first place?
- 14/12/2012 06:55:27 AM
765 Views
Why they first existed is not in issue. It is if they STILL serve a useful or detrimental purpose.
- 14/12/2012 03:00:48 PM
831 Views
Yeah, moron! What is wrong with you, that you do not blindly accept his underlying premise?
- 19/12/2012 01:35:37 AM
1159 Views
Damn, I agree with Anonymous2000.
- 14/12/2012 04:29:36 AM
859 Views
This must be a trying time for you.
- 14/12/2012 07:06:56 AM
814 Views
Callandor sees the light, perhaps it's time for you as well!
*NM*
- 14/12/2012 02:08:47 PM
375 Views
*NM*
- 14/12/2012 02:08:47 PM
375 Views
HOW they are doing it..is bullshit
- 13/12/2012 06:33:09 PM
982 Views
How? Residents of MI elected a Republican legislature and Governor.....
- 13/12/2012 09:25:43 PM
818 Views
You have the right to work, not the right to vote in an election as you see fit and keep your job. *NM*
- 15/12/2012 03:23:13 AM
462 Views

