Inexplicably, Ft. Hood was a gun free zone (guess no one told the shooter.)
Joel Send a noteboard - 26/12/2012 06:12:42 PM
On April 20, however, Deputy Gardner and campus supervisor Andy Marton, an unarmed school security officer employed by the school district, were eating lunch in Gardner’s patrol car. They were monitoring students in the “Smokers’ Pit,” a spot just to the northwest of campus in Clement Park where the students congregated to smoke cigarettes.
So the problem was he as looking after the wrong group of students - perhaps a problem that could occur when guarding any school that is sizeable, in particular if it is spread over a large area?
That was my impression, yes, particularly after he said armed cops at schools would prevent more Columbines, but only if assigned that duty exclusively.
did i make you a copy of the "sub pop 200" album? if not, do you remember that song from terry lee hale which has the verse that goes:
"Little men carry guns and walk so big.
They say they're not afraid, just prepared.
But you know they want to use it, they want to drop the heat
They want to play the hero and talk a life that's cheap
Hanging onto nothing, more than they can keep
Do you think that they would dare less? Think they'd lose their sleep?
No, they never do...."
point being, it's incredibly easy in hindsight to say "oh yeah, that would've totally worked if only...." i'm going to go back to the fort hood shooting here and say: if the largest US military base in the world cannot contain a single crazy gunman, what hope does a single guard have at a public school, especially when he is going to be required to do more than just look for gunmen shooting at kids?
As soon as two civilian cops showed up with handguns, the Ft. Hood shooter wounded one of them with several shots before the other one shot him five times and cuffed him. Fort Hood is not an argument more guns cannot prevent gun violence, but that prohibiting them even to a military bases screened and trained soldiers makes even military bases easy prey for a single crazed gunman. It is also an argument to deny guns to mentally ill people behaving violently.
Having people trained with guns does no good if those people are 1) prohibited from having guns or 2) sent elsewhere before the shooting starts. It is not unreasonable to say, "that totally would have worked IF ANYONE HAD BOTHERED TRYING IT." Tell ya what: Since we are currently having mass shootings at the rate of about one every two months, why not try it and SEE if it works? What is the worst that could happen?
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
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Slightly better than chocolate.
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Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
the NRA shows it is an asylum overrun by lunatics
- 22/12/2012 04:40:26 PM
1420 Views
I do not see why calling for armed cops at schools is an unreasonable response.
- 22/12/2012 04:53:06 PM
951 Views
I can think of two reasons off the top of my head
- 22/12/2012 05:38:19 PM
960 Views
If the schools that the children of our elected representatives attend are gaurded, so should mine.
- 26/12/2012 03:00:35 PM
748 Views
If someone is shooting at you having a gun to shoot back seems like a good idea
- 26/12/2012 06:10:07 PM
792 Views
The effectiveness issue aside
- 22/12/2012 06:13:30 PM
832 Views
Re: The effectiveness issue aside
- 22/12/2012 06:59:36 PM
914 Views
If you think it would solve the debate then probably
- 22/12/2012 07:09:42 PM
888 Views
Nothing will ever truly end the debate, but we can greatly reduce or end its justification.
- 22/12/2012 08:03:39 PM
853 Views
If it's shown to work
- 23/12/2012 12:25:38 AM
944 Views
Of the many school shootings in recent years, I am aware of none where armed cops were present.
- 23/12/2012 12:47:32 AM
861 Views
columbine had two armed guards on the day of the shooting. they were both immediately fired upon...
- 23/12/2012 12:49:30 AM
802 Views
I have never seen any mention of them among the injured or dead (or at all.)
- 23/12/2012 01:09:38 AM
950 Views
you should try harder
- 23/12/2012 01:15:34 AM
989 Views
"a motorcycle patrolman who was near the school writing a speeding ticket" is not stationed there.
- 23/12/2012 01:34:50 AM
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he still didn't stop the shooting, whether he was there before or after it started
- 23/12/2012 01:49:24 AM
930 Views
No kidding; how could he stop the shooting before it started if he was not there?
- 23/12/2012 02:16:59 AM
783 Views
A fuller account of Gardner
- 23/12/2012 10:27:24 AM
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Nice link.
- 23/12/2012 02:27:30 PM
790 Views
Re: Nice link.
- 23/12/2012 03:15:24 PM
803 Views
Inexplicably, Ft. Hood was a gun free zone (guess no one told the shooter.)
- 26/12/2012 06:12:42 PM
802 Views
Re: Nice link.
- 23/12/2012 04:21:27 PM
799 Views
Gardner:If you’re going to put a police officer in a school, make sure his focus stays on the school
- 26/12/2012 06:40:41 PM
861 Views
The children are what matter, not the school. Surely this isn't something you disagree on?
- 29/12/2012 02:15:12 PM
877 Views
As usual Moondog, you are missing a BUNCH of facts on this one (links inside)
- 26/12/2012 07:51:29 PM
921 Views
at last count, over 99,000 schools in the US
- 23/12/2012 12:45:30 AM
882 Views
What is public safety worth to you?
- 23/12/2012 12:54:04 AM
800 Views
it's not entirely a matter of cost, although that factors into it.
- 23/12/2012 01:01:50 AM
725 Views
There are many cases where armed cops ended mass shootings.
- 23/12/2012 01:28:25 AM
739 Views
there are none where an armed guard placed there *before* the shooting had any effect
- 23/12/2012 01:36:42 AM
874 Views
Kind of a Catch-22; if they PREVENT shootings, shootings can only occur in their absence.
- 23/12/2012 01:52:03 AM
918 Views
ok, here is my last word on the subject
- 23/12/2012 02:06:49 AM
856 Views
9 people injured vs. 20 people dead.
- 23/12/2012 02:34:00 AM
773 Views
it is still "more guns makes us safer" which has yet to prevent a single massacre in this country
- 23/12/2012 02:41:56 PM
887 Views
Peter Odighizuwa comes to mind, that's also horrible logic
- 23/12/2012 08:27:46 PM
800 Views
Care to prove that negative? The burden to do so is on you as the person who made the assertion.
- 26/12/2012 06:47:07 PM
770 Views
It doesn't have to be a full time gaurd standing looking dangerous.
- 26/12/2012 06:12:14 PM
878 Views
Re: the NRA shows it is an asylum overrun by lunatics
- 22/12/2012 06:36:32 PM
1043 Views
I believe it is fairly common in junior and high schools today, but not elementary schools.
- 22/12/2012 07:12:32 PM
808 Views
This entire post is completely irrelevant.
- 22/12/2012 07:27:45 PM
901 Views
Those who want univeral prohibition/access are equally fringe minorities.
- 22/12/2012 08:18:00 PM
845 Views
there is no Left or Right on this issue, there is only Sane and Insane
- 23/12/2012 12:59:08 AM
895 Views
also: it's insulting to tell parents their kids would be alive if only more guns were around
- 23/12/2012 01:30:53 AM
815 Views
People die from all sort of causes
- 22/12/2012 07:27:53 PM
859 Views
Cars require training, certification and licensing, too; why should guns not?
- 22/12/2012 08:25:43 PM
981 Views
Do bombs require certification?
- 22/12/2012 09:21:25 PM
1098 Views
No, they are pretty much illegal for the general public under all conditions.
- 22/12/2012 09:35:35 PM
758 Views
i say this with all due respect -- eat a bag of dicks
- 23/12/2012 01:04:08 AM
870 Views
That was pretty damn respectful under the circumstances.
- 23/12/2012 01:10:04 AM
826 Views
The lack of intellect displayed here is to be expected
- 23/12/2012 04:01:32 AM
844 Views
so according to you we should just make life illegal since everyone is going to die from something..
- 23/12/2012 07:25:05 AM
775 Views
Obviously you didn't put pay attention
- 23/12/2012 01:40:17 PM
811 Views
no, you said "fuck it because people die anyway". there is a big difference
- 23/12/2012 02:46:46 PM
747 Views
Dicks and stones
- 23/12/2012 03:54:25 AM
1010 Views
cars and guns kill roughly the same number of people every year -- around 30,000 give or take
- 23/12/2012 01:02:44 AM
829 Views
But over half of gun deaths are suicide.....so cars are much more dangerous to society. *NM*
- 23/12/2012 05:35:45 AM
354 Views
Every year is iffy there, it dropped off the last two, was 40k-50k plus for cars since 1962
- 23/12/2012 11:55:50 AM
772 Views
except that cars are legislated to be safer every year, guns aren't.
- 23/12/2012 03:01:36 PM
837 Views
Guns are for killing, cars are for transport, cars aren't any safer now against use for homicide
- 23/12/2012 08:22:13 PM
783 Views
but if we are trying to minimize the number of deaths, then more MUST be done for gun laws
- 24/12/2012 03:33:31 AM
750 Views
More must be done to minimize, not necessarily with greater regulation
- 24/12/2012 04:27:04 AM
877 Views
Re: More must be done to minimize, not necessarily with greater regulation
- 25/12/2012 04:49:54 PM
819 Views
Re: More must be done to minimize, not necessarily with greater regulation
- 25/12/2012 08:41:53 PM
805 Views
Here is some interesting data.....knives are as dangerous as "non-handguns"
- 23/12/2012 05:45:08 AM
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I hope you don't mind me taking this opportunity to plug my new book, "How to Cook with Guns" *NM*
- 23/12/2012 03:04:06 PM
454 Views
there was a school mass stabbing in china the same day as sandy hook
- 23/12/2012 03:18:00 PM
808 Views
I am equally happy that the criminal was incompetant, but that does not diminish their lethality
- 27/12/2012 10:45:33 PM
879 Views
I'm not sure it's about guns.
- 23/12/2012 06:08:50 PM
802 Views
IMO it is about the media attention focuised on the perpetrator. Their name becomes history. *NM*
- 27/12/2012 10:47:15 PM
416 Views