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... and probably never will, but, alright, here we go: Joel Send a noteboard - 05/01/2013 06:53:23 PM
... by arguments you never presented to me.
I will see if I can slog at least part way through it to find a few more tomorrow if you like; the length and number should make it easy.

But teachers aren’t as trained as police officers! True, yet totally irrelevant. The teacher doesn’t need to be a SWAT cop or Navy SEAL. They need to be speed bumps.

Not true; they need to be SAFE speed bumps, not opening fire at any provocation or none. They need to know how to clean and maintain their weapon so it fires when required—and NO other time. Remember when you were educating Sprite about shoulder holsters and thumb breaks? Since that was how you suggested teachers prevent someone grabbing their gun, is it not logical to think any teachers carrying a gun at school should know about them?

Correias argument here is that his career is superfluous: Even HE does not believe it, so why should anyone else?

Just make it so that your state’s concealed weapons laws trump the Federal Gun Free School Zones act.

No one not already convinced thinks this a slamdunk argument. I mean, seriously, make state law superior to federal law so guns become common and widespread in schools? Do you HONESTLY think people outraged by school shootings will support that?

After Virginia Tech, I started teaching college students for free as well. They were 21 year old adults who could pass a background check. Why should they have to be defenseless?

No reason at all; I fully support all such peopls having any gun they can afford. Correia is arguing against gun control by saying, "21 year olds who pass a background check and get weapons training should be able to have one." That IS gun control, and Correia is GREATLY misrepresenting gun control to suggest otherwise.

I do agree with him on one point though:
Permit holders are not cops. The mistake many people make is that they think permit holders are supposed to be cops or junior danger rangers.

I could not have said it better.

Now let us consider his series of examples:
I testified before the Utah State Legislature about the University of Utah’s gun ban the day after the Trolley Square shooting in Salt Lake City. Another disaffected loser scumbag started shooting up this mall. He killed several innocent people before he was engaged by an off duty police officer who just happened to be there shopping. The off duty Ogden cop pinned down the shooter until two officers from the SLCPD came up from behind and killed the shooter. (turned out one of them was a customer of mine) I sent one of my employees down to Trolley Square to take a picture of the shopping center’s front doors. I then showed the picture to the legislators. One of the rules was NO GUNS ALLOWED.

The man that attacked the midnight showing of Batman didn’t attack just any theater. There were like ten to choose from. He didn’t attack the closest. It wasn’t about biggest or smallest. He attacked the one that was posted NO GUNS ALLOWED.

There were four mass killing attempts this week. Only one made the news because it helped the agreed upon media narrative.

Oregon. NOT a gun free zone. Shooter confronted by permit holder. Shooter commits suicide. Only a few casualties.
Texas. NOT a gun free zone. Shooter killed immediately by off duty cop. Only a few casualties.
Connecticut. GUN FREE ZONE. Shooters kills until the police arrive. Suicide. 26 dead.
China. GUN FREE COUNTRY. A guy with a KNIFE stabs 22 children.

This is a good argument against gun free zones, but a poor one for universal untrained access to guns.

UT: Shooter killed by a COP (e.g. a screened, trained and certified adult gun user.)

OR: Shooter "confronted by a permit holder" (e.g. a screened, trained and certified adult gun user.) Shooter (NOT permit holder) shot himself.

TX: Shooter killed by a COP (e.g. a screened, trained and certified adult gun user.)

CT: Shooter commits suicide after arrival of COPS (e.g. a screened, trained and certified adult gun users.)

China: This PERFECTLY illustrates why neither the pro NOR anti-gun lunatic fringe dictate the debate, because BOTH sides selectively use it to "prove" them right.

Radical pro-gun people: Chinese nutjob stabbed 22 schoolkids despite a total gun ban, therefore gun bans are useless.

Radical anti-gun people: Chinese nutjob stabbed 22 schoolkids but all survived thanks to a total gun ban, therefore gun bans are foolproof.

Rational people: Chinas gun ban prevented any fatalities but ALSO prevented sane, law-abiding and trained teachers/on-site cops aborting the attack.

It SHOULD be obvious that neither universally allowing NOR banning guns is ideal. And it is—to everyone not convinced one or the other is the "only solution."

If you present a few, I'll review those few, I don't give a fuck about them until then. If your counters are like the two you offered, don't waste your breath, the one didn't even make sense and the other amounted to "yes? And?" because you said 2+2=4 like it was a profound rebuttal, 'guns more dangerous than knives' is probably about the damn most redundant thing ever brought up in gun control, and you said it as though pro and anti alike should go 'Oh, holy shit! Never thought of that before.'

So feel free to present them as you find them, they mean nothing to me until I see them, but if the caliber isn't better I wouldn't bother.

Your response both mirros and explains my reaction to Correias article: His fellow pro-gun radicals act like IT is "a profound rebuttal" because they already agreed with him. The rest of us remain unimpressed, because Correias article is only "convincing" to those ALREADY convinced his arguments are valid.
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Poll: 54 percent view NRA favorably - 28/12/2012 04:23:35 AM 914 Views
Hahahaha. That is full of shit. OMG. Thanks for the laughs. *NM* - 28/12/2012 06:30:08 AM 375 Views
I have this to say about that... - 28/12/2012 07:10:52 AM 710 Views
That was rather long but probably one of the best things I've read this year - 28/12/2012 02:31:24 PM 490 Views
Excellent article by a knowledgable individual armed with facts. *NM* - 28/12/2012 04:36:23 PM 244 Views
See my response to Novo. - 28/12/2012 06:28:00 PM 577 Views
please cite the errors, manipulations, or lies. - 28/12/2012 09:30:28 PM 526 Views
I cited two in response to her, and those were just the ones I remember off the top of my head. - 28/12/2012 11:07:36 PM 664 Views
If you can't remember them, then don't claim them *NM* - 29/12/2012 03:08:08 AM 298 Views
Two just from memory is enough to substantiate my claim. - 29/12/2012 03:35:49 AM 555 Views
'Substantiate your claim'? I don't think you're lying, I just don't feel any reason to be swayed... - 29/12/2012 04:00:10 AM 454 Views
... and probably never will, but, alright, here we go: - 05/01/2013 06:53:23 PM 510 Views
Probably, but at least I'll listen - 05/01/2013 08:30:48 PM 562 Views
The 2 things you attempted to "cite" were absolute nonsense and proved nothing. - 31/12/2012 06:00:00 PM 522 Views
Was that response meant for me or Correia? - 05/01/2013 07:04:31 PM 500 Views
Great read, thanks for posting! *NM* - 28/12/2012 05:52:29 PM 248 Views
Thanks for posting that, I enjoyed it a lot - 29/12/2012 01:36:33 AM 497 Views
his premise is "there's already too many guns so why bother trying anything at all now" - 07/01/2013 06:27:20 PM 562 Views
I don't think that's his sole premise but it's also quite true - 07/01/2013 07:05:20 PM 593 Views
i think you're missing a piece of the puzzle - 07/01/2013 07:23:02 PM 512 Views
I'm not missing it, I just don't think it's wise or especially moral - 07/01/2013 09:36:05 PM 555 Views
moral has nothing to do with it, imho - 07/01/2013 11:26:00 PM 604 Views
Re: moral has nothing to do with it, imho - 08/01/2013 05:40:46 AM 479 Views
last thoughts..... - 08/01/2013 05:18:35 PM 497 Views
Well I was referring more to the timing of collecting data. - 29/12/2012 04:28:01 AM 687 Views
Is that the same Gallup that said 54% of America would vote Romney? - 28/12/2012 06:15:43 PM 601 Views
Once again data is data.....feel free to cite other polling data. *NM* - 28/12/2012 06:38:29 PM 263 Views

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