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View original postthis last one is something the NRA has historically refused to publicly get behind. the only reason i can think of for the lack of support is that it is in the NRA's best interests to allow criminals to continue to buy guns on the black market, or else the idea of a gun for self defense is not as powerful an argument as it otherwise would be. since the NRA gets a kickback on every gun sold in the US, it only makes sense they want more people to buy more guns. by allowing straw sales to go unchecked and unprosecuted, the NRA can stand on the side and say "look how dangerous our country is! criminals are buying guns on the street right in our neighborhoods! we need a gun for home defense to protect ourselves from this threat!"
That's a bit convoluted and demonizing for me, and kind of damages my reception of your other remarks. I consider the NRA a respectable and vital organization, much like the ACLU.
i used to think the NRA was a respectable organization, misguided though i find some of their arguments on gun rights to be. i find it tiring to admit that i've been participating in this debate for over 20 years and we seem to only move towards greater armament of criminals despite overwhelming evidence from other countries that certain specific legal restrictions work to deter criminals from possessing guns.
20 years ago, the NRA did a lot of respectable work, and still operate one of the best training courses for the under-18 crowd. over the last 20 years, as it's become obvious the NRA represents gun manufacturers more than the gun owners themselves, i continually question whether or not they are truly concerned with the safe and responsible operation of firearms by individuals.
as i said, when a percentage of every new gun sold goes into the NRA's operating fund, it's not difficult to imagine why the NRA's solution to all crime is "buy a gun". it's in their financial self-interest to keep guns flowing, and their rhetoric (especially LaPierre's "lack of government control after a disaster" speech to the Senate) is more alarmist and dystopian than ever. i find such talk to be irresponsible and completely divorced from what self-identified NRA members have been asking for, especially since the Newtown massacre. there was definitely a time when the NRA had my respect, but more and more they lose it when people like Wayne LaPierre opens his mouth to paint yet another grim and miserable picture of a society in disarray in which owning a gun is the only possible solution to survive.
"The RIAA has shown a certain disregard for the creative people of the industry in their eagerness to protect the revenues of the record companies." -- Frank Zappa
"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
US Senate Democrats - already cave-in on the gun control bill
- 19/03/2013 10:44:55 PM
1535 Views
right wingers are always point out there is no point legislating cosmetics
- 19/03/2013 11:52:28 PM
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You know, what you are hoping for will not make any difference whatsoever.....
- 20/03/2013 01:07:58 AM
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I can agree with some of what you stated, though I prefer "logical" to "right winger"
- 20/03/2013 01:56:34 AM
860 Views
you are correct. i forget sometimes that there **is** some common ground here....
- 20/03/2013 04:19:13 AM
780 Views
There'd be more common ground if anything were ever offered in exchange for concessions
- 20/03/2013 02:20:26 PM
805 Views
Ben Franklin said it best...
- 20/03/2013 04:14:45 PM
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interesting how that quote always applies to so many things, isn't it?
- 20/03/2013 05:14:30 PM
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Re: Ben Franklin said it best...
- 21/03/2013 07:16:25 AM
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There can be NO negotiation, that is the point. This is a Constitutionally protected Right.
- 21/03/2013 01:03:54 PM
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Including Capital Letters in pronouncements do NOT make something so
- 21/03/2013 02:56:43 PM
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1st Amendment absolutism suggests libel and slander are unconstitutional.
- 21/03/2013 07:24:34 PM
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One person's rights end where another's begin, as you well know.
- 22/03/2013 02:38:37 AM
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all the same, none of the proposed laws truly infringe on your right to keep or use those guns....
- 22/03/2013 07:29:52 PM
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Apparently you did not read Feinstein's, you know the one that started this whole thread...
- 23/03/2013 06:26:57 PM
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i'm aware of her statements, you'll have to actually prove your point....
- 24/03/2013 03:35:11 AM
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Her bill tried to eliminate my (and everone's) right to own all but 2,000 specific weapons.
- 24/03/2013 12:30:56 PM
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"A well-regulated militia...."
- 25/03/2013 07:27:48 PM
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and by REGULATED, the authors meant "able to use it effectively"
- 26/03/2013 01:23:07 PM
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we are long past the point where defense against tyranny is feasible
- 26/03/2013 07:48:37 PM
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if there have to be concessions, what do you recommend?
- 20/03/2013 05:10:53 PM
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That would depend, something of equal value
- 20/03/2013 09:13:23 PM
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when very little is being given up, how do we determine equal value?
- 20/03/2013 10:31:59 PM
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Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining
- 21/03/2013 10:53:22 AM
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Re: Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining
- 21/03/2013 07:16:57 PM
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Re: Outside of legislature people do it all the time, its called negotiation and bargaining
- 21/03/2013 08:53:20 PM
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some answers
- 21/03/2013 10:04:45 PM
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Re: some answers
- 21/03/2013 11:33:21 PM
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Re: the NRA
- 22/03/2013 07:44:06 PM
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This is a matter of POV bias
- 22/03/2013 09:04:25 PM
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we will have to agree to disagree then
- 22/03/2013 10:12:02 PM
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I already knew we disagreed, that's why I suggested bargaining
- 22/03/2013 11:11:04 PM
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i am merely taking the NRA at their word(s)
- 23/03/2013 12:13:18 AM
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Re: i am merely taking the NRA at their word(s)
- 23/03/2013 02:04:39 AM
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i am not trying to sway, just come to an understanding
- 23/03/2013 03:03:14 PM
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I think you've actually managed to widen our gap
- 23/03/2013 03:53:55 PM
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yes, because it was a failed attempt to re-boot and start the debate from the beginning.....
- 24/03/2013 03:33:05 AM
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I've difficulty seeing the point of going back to first principles but I'm willing to try
- 24/03/2013 02:13:29 PM
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this has been more insightful than our previous tit-for-tat responses, actually
- 26/03/2013 07:40:27 PM
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There's always room for reaosnable dialogue
- 26/03/2013 10:09:58 PM
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There are many more laws and regulations on the industry than you seem to be aware of.
- 20/03/2013 03:58:19 PM
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the existing laws and how they are enforced are completely different problems
- 20/03/2013 05:32:31 PM
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I have no problems with actually enforcing existing laws, in fact I want to see that before new 1 *NM*
- 21/03/2013 12:17:40 AM
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I can see the argument for limiting magazine capapcity but it would be hard to enforce
- 20/03/2013 05:11:51 PM
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as with most laws, some amount of grandfathering will probably be necessary
- 20/03/2013 05:34:57 PM
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It would be a stupid meaningless "feel good" law as changing magazines takes almost no time. *NM*
- 21/03/2013 01:05:34 PM
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canada's magazine restrictions are credited with reducing fatalities in a mass shooting
- 21/03/2013 07:22:45 PM
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Regarding guns sold which are used in crimes
- 20/03/2013 10:41:21 PM
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Your specified legal requirements already exist. *NM*
- 21/03/2013 02:05:12 AM
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So what other stipulations would you put into effect? *NM*
- 21/03/2013 02:42:53 AM
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none- I'd simply actually punish criminals instead of trying to "reform" them. *NM*
- 21/03/2013 01:13:29 PM
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Criminals need to be punished AND reformed for their inevitable release back into society *NM*
- 21/03/2013 11:58:20 PM
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I've always been rather partial to the criminal justice system in Heinlein's Starship Troopers novel
- 22/03/2013 02:42:09 AM
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Yeah you're right. Let's just kill everybody who commits a crime
- 22/03/2013 02:46:49 AM
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*NM*
That's not in Starship Troopers
- 22/03/2013 12:51:44 PM
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Yeah, there was a small number of capital offenses (13 I think), most not specified.
- 22/03/2013 05:27:11 PM
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So what's your solution? Smaller sentences? Or death penalty for everybody?
- 22/03/2013 06:33:13 PM
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I don't have a truly viable one. I just have a bunch of ideas that no one would want to enact.
- 24/03/2013 12:49:58 PM
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14 then, he lists stupidity as one in another book 
- 22/03/2013 07:35:13 PM
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- 22/03/2013 07:35:13 PM
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Out of curiosity. Is anyone against background checks at gun shows, and if so, why? *NM*
- 21/03/2013 09:38:59 AM
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Personally, I am worried about criminals with guns. BUT...
- 22/03/2013 03:44:47 PM
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What you are not factoring into your though process is that most criminals feels the same way.
- 24/03/2013 12:56:04 PM
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I realize that can be the case. But...
- 25/03/2013 03:32:59 PM
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Twice I was almost robbed, and my parents were robbed several times.
- 26/03/2013 01:35:11 PM
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