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I guess it depends on how you define the terms Isaac Send a noteboard - 05/04/2013 08:52:25 AM

View original postOr if you prefer... Fiscal conservatives who are more socially liberally minded. But you know what they say. "Behind every cynic there's a disappointed idealist." Meh. Ideally we have had both but the polarization of politics have gotten quite depressing. Both are wrong, and both are right regarding certain points.

When you get right down to most issues are principally moral v moral or moral v cash, guns, abortions, drugs, porn, prostitution, gay rights, etc are mostly moral v moral, whereas military spending, environmentalism, welfare, SS, etc are moral v cash. Moral v moral issue rarely have much to do with each other and moral v cash are mostly about priority and efficiency. Liberal and conservative are pretty vague and silly concepts, depending on who you ask inside the GOP I am a moderate establishment republican or an arch-conservative or libertarian and you'll get that from people who have equal knowledge of my political leanings. Same applies to the left. Most people have a few pet issues and they connect them together into their pet uber-ideology, I count myself lucky to have mostly avoided that trap, mostly because I know there's an alternate Universe nearly identical to ours where pot didn't get banned and right now the Dems are screaming about the republicans "Taking blood money from the NRA, Phillip-Morris, and High Times" and another where the republicans are accusing the left of trying to starve children.

So no I don't really think a social liberal fiscal hawk is in the cards mostly because the former is something I don't believe exists and the latter is one I view as a matter more associated to how frugal someone is, which really has nothing to do with their abortion or gun stance, but it does have a lot to do with how likely someone is to agree to additional funding for various programs especially those that hinge on giving individuals cash. Your average frugal person if asked to define 'poverty level' is likely to give a lower value than the average person. As long as socially liberal includes, in people's eyes, issues that are more moral v cash as opposed to principally moral v moral, fiscal conservatives are likely to be rarer animals in that group then out. Frugal people usually deny themselves a lot of luxuries and tend to get irritated, unsympathetic, or even outraged by those who don't especially on the taxpayer dime. Forget your wallet or be low on cash some week, go out for dinner with a frugal friend and they don't just order cheap they'll typically get angry if you spend the borrowed cash on steak, even if the amount you borrowed didn't bother them at all and they have no doubt you're good for it. This is a great mindset for people in public office to have, especially with money that isn't theirs, but it doesn't tend to lend itself as readily raising taxes to increase payments to the poor.

If you redefine social liberal to be only those things which are moral v moral issues, then yeah, it can happen and probably would. We've had times like that before, it will probably happen again.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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Liberalism has officially failed - Poverty reaches 1960 levels - - 04/04/2013 12:33:15 AM 1106 Views
As has Conservatism. - 04/04/2013 12:37:23 AM 579 Views
I know it hurts.....but the truth about liberalism will set you free! - 04/04/2013 12:42:57 AM 671 Views
Have you ever tried to fish when really hungry? - 04/04/2013 06:32:17 AM 601 Views
HA! HA! In your dreams that's how liberalism works. How about..... - 04/04/2013 04:59:33 PM 556 Views
and lo, Jesus said unto the poor gathered to him: "begone freeloaders! the wealthy need more money" - 04/04/2013 06:43:32 PM 568 Views
Interestingly enough.... - 04/04/2013 09:20:06 PM 601 Views
Re: Interestingly enough.... - 04/04/2013 09:31:27 PM 606 Views
Well here is where theology gets fun.... - 04/04/2013 09:48:50 PM 660 Views
The entire post...as well as many of the sub-threads....prompts the question of: - 04/04/2013 09:39:16 PM 655 Views
it depends on what your definition of "succeed" is i guess.... - 04/04/2013 10:27:30 PM 706 Views
And that is certainly your opinion.... - 04/04/2013 10:54:08 PM 722 Views
Re: And that is certainly your opinion.... - 04/04/2013 11:57:34 PM 776 Views
Hmm good questions - 04/04/2013 10:29:45 PM 686 Views
you contradicted yourself - 04/04/2013 10:44:47 PM 612 Views
Re: you contradicted yourself - 04/04/2013 10:54:35 PM 686 Views
i think i understand where you're coming from.... - 05/04/2013 07:33:32 PM 647 Views
I see the problem - 04/04/2013 06:45:53 PM 607 Views
since you don't trust the gov't, what are you doing to help the poor survive? - 04/04/2013 12:58:49 AM 698 Views
A few serious answers, if you can handle them..... - 04/04/2013 04:15:32 AM 599 Views
Re: A few serious answers, if you can handle them..... - 04/04/2013 06:42:00 PM 720 Views
Perhaps its time to try a little fact checking. - 04/04/2013 03:34:44 AM 840 Views
I'm happy you agree with me, liberalism has failed and it's time for something different. - 04/04/2013 03:47:17 AM 578 Views
Oh the cleverness of you. - 04/04/2013 03:52:07 AM 733 Views
Wow, I'm shocked. Yes, let's stick with the failed status quo. Good plan! - 04/04/2013 04:17:32 AM 537 Views
Who said anything about the status quo? I just said I didn't agree with your solution. *NM* - 04/04/2013 04:19:37 AM 378 Views
Then time to step up, what's your idea? - 04/04/2013 04:22:58 AM 537 Views
As you might say, "What do you expect, a free ride?" - 04/04/2013 11:45:02 AM 729 Views
How typicaly conservative! And no. - 04/04/2013 02:05:00 PM 595 Views
Agreed and this is how we will finance such a move - 04/04/2013 04:01:46 AM 647 Views
I'm glad you agree! - 04/04/2013 04:21:25 AM 618 Views
No, in Europe, liberalism is generally successful - 04/04/2013 06:15:34 AM 586 Views
Liberalism & Conservatism 'officially fail' about ever other year I've noticed, still around though *NM* - 04/04/2013 09:02:42 AM 297 Views
Yes. I wonder if there will ever be an age of fiscally responsible/conservative liberals. - 05/04/2013 03:41:09 AM 642 Views
I guess it depends on how you define the terms - 05/04/2013 08:52:25 AM 790 Views
*nod* - 05/04/2013 01:30:47 PM 665 Views
Re: *nod* - 05/04/2013 03:12:17 PM 565 Views
Off topic: are you gardening yet? - 05/04/2013 02:25:06 PM 532 Views
Initial stuff - 05/04/2013 03:21:25 PM 494 Views
Re: Initial stuff - 05/04/2013 07:10:57 PM 570 Views
Re: Initial stuff - 05/04/2013 08:19:16 PM 613 Views
Re: Initial stuff - 05/04/2013 11:21:56 PM 617 Views
I didn't know they make LED grow lights! - 06/04/2013 12:18:25 AM 760 Views
It's a bit newer because of the price, that's been dropping - 06/04/2013 01:20:10 AM 640 Views
Re: Initial stuff - 05/04/2013 11:11:12 PM 719 Views
Re: Initial stuff - 05/04/2013 07:56:47 PM 623 Views
Re: Initial stuff - 06/04/2013 12:36:10 AM 762 Views
Re: Initial stuff - 06/04/2013 02:01:59 AM 663 Views
Re: Initial stuff - 06/04/2013 03:19:39 AM 509 Views
Yes, the logical step is to go for Nordic style socialism. - 04/04/2013 03:19:17 PM 634 Views
well that and a tiny homogenous population funded by large oil reserves - 04/04/2013 06:57:51 PM 604 Views
Eh, you're describing norway. - 04/04/2013 08:11:25 PM 560 Views
The Economist (of all people) was singing the praises of the Nordic countries recently. - 04/04/2013 08:49:36 PM 575 Views
Hey, guess what? - 04/04/2013 08:55:59 PM 563 Views
Awesome. - 04/04/2013 09:22:13 PM 463 Views
Oh my gosh! - 04/04/2013 09:27:17 PM 507 Views
Yes! - 04/04/2013 09:33:45 PM 544 Views
Yay! - 04/04/2013 09:37:40 PM 564 Views
We're Maryland, actually, as I recall. - 04/04/2013 10:15:49 PM 536 Views
Eh survival of the fittest - 04/04/2013 06:18:52 PM 649 Views
Excuse me? - 04/04/2013 08:42:24 PM 589 Views
Cry me a river - 04/04/2013 08:55:40 PM 621 Views
Funny. - 04/04/2013 09:18:15 PM 607 Views
Re: Funny. - 04/04/2013 10:19:35 PM 608 Views
good for you for making it but you are so full of bullshit - 04/04/2013 10:38:45 PM 639 Views
Re: good for you for making it but you are so full of bullshit - 04/04/2013 10:49:14 PM 604 Views
Wow. - 04/04/2013 11:27:06 PM 613 Views
Re: Wow. - 05/04/2013 12:18:08 AM 710 Views
congrats on being part of the problem.... *NM* - 05/04/2013 04:48:58 AM 325 Views
It's pointless to argue with those who don't understand the psychology of generational poverty. *NM* - 05/04/2013 03:43:40 AM 304 Views
Clearly. *NM* - 05/04/2013 07:32:21 PM 282 Views
Oh the "it's nobody's fault excuse" - 05/04/2013 08:56:51 PM 574 Views
Get back to me when you know wtf you're talking about. *NM* - 05/04/2013 09:03:08 PM 310 Views
I'm back *NM* - 06/04/2013 01:40:47 AM 284 Views
You're over-generalizing a bit - 06/04/2013 01:49:02 AM 688 Views

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