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Basically? Mass and redundancy Isaac Send a noteboard - 24/04/2013 10:40:30 PM

View original postThe financial piece is obvious... it is depending almost wholly on grassroots and media based funding, which is of course tenuous at best. Once a team arrived on Mars I feel they would be fine, because at that point, the groundswell of support that was started by the Apollo missions would take over. It's getting there that would be the problem.

I hope there wouldn't be a groundswell, it would make an amazing way to burn cash.


View original postThere would be no rescue, if things went wrong. THAT technology simply doesn't exist yet, which is why this is being pitched as a one way trip. If I did sign up, and managed to make it there, I would know that I would probably die on Mars, the only question would be if it was sooner than later.


View original postBut lay your idea of the technical issues on me. Why is this not technologically viable, if one assumes a one way trip?

It's not viable on their budget. Fundamentally the way rockets are right now, it's like bulk freight, the faster you want to travel the more its gonna cost, but it doesn't make too much difference which company you go with. That speed thing is fairly important. When we send our Robots they don't breathe, or eat, or suffer from radiation since we build them sturdy on that score as we power them with plutonium. They also don't require state funerals when we crash them into a planet at hypersonic velocities... the success rate on Mars mission has been less than 50/50, the last two before Curiosity never even made it out of Earth orbit, admittedly those were Russian and Chinese, not NASA, but NASA's crashed it's fair share of probes and the Russians and Chinese (and the Brits crashed one in 2003) are none of them amateurs at rocketry, compared to any private firm, also those ICBMS and cruise missiles make for good practice. This is a small Dutch start-up trying to tackle a manned expedition to Mars when NASA is the only group even breaking 50% non-catastrophic failure on getting relatively small objects there intact. Curiosity cost 20 or 30 times as much as the UK's Beagle 2, the aforementioned crash, and you remember how amazed (rightly) everyone was that that mission worked. That was just to land a one ton probe.

When you shift from robots to people you need to keep them alive that whole time, and each component you add increases mass and every ounce you shave off increases the odds of catastrophic failure. We run budgets parallel to what these guys have just to land a ton on Mars with about a 50% success rate, we'd be talking about the need to land at least a few hundred tons on Mars. Preferably thousands of tons.

How about food? Are we going to fly it in? Those rations are real light, about half a pound a day a person, but it means every year those 4 people will need 800 pounds of food. Unless they supplement with growing food, which would need mass for various domes and so on. Last I heard the pick for that was PCTFE, which a single layer runs just under two pounds for 10'x10' sheet. A for man team is going to need a couple tons of material minimum for each each year, one way or another, and more is better. Things will break and the experts will be 8+ minutes away, not lie now or even with the moon where they could still effectively talk real time from Houston to the Moon with a few seconds of pause between response. There's not going to be hundreds of top experts sitting there walking you through repair or improv and there's a limit to training and tutorial videos, so even more redundancy is needed and even more mass, and on and on.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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If you could, would you move permanently to Mars? - 24/04/2013 03:30:55 AM 1456 Views
You want to go where? *NM* - 24/04/2013 06:29:07 AM 412 Views
Have you read the 'Mars' trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson? - 24/04/2013 06:37:26 AM 897 Views
Well, I'll look into it. - 24/04/2013 07:13:05 PM 789 Views
"Digital Descendants" - 25/04/2013 09:30:54 PM 797 Views
I think it's incredible that such a thing is even being attempted - 24/04/2013 08:13:16 AM 881 Views
I know. It really perplexes me that so many people are so down on it. - 24/04/2013 07:19:42 PM 828 Views
I am not gonna lie - 24/04/2013 08:24:57 AM 823 Views
No, and definitely not with this group - 24/04/2013 10:26:03 AM 899 Views
What's the problem, technically? - 24/04/2013 07:24:22 PM 798 Views
Basically? Mass and redundancy - 24/04/2013 10:40:30 PM 710 Views
The mass is what I wondered about. - 24/04/2013 11:03:36 PM 748 Views
Fuel costs are linear to mass, total costs are probably less - 25/04/2013 12:20:55 AM 703 Views
To put this in perspective, adding to Issac's points - 25/04/2013 01:50:38 AM 769 Views
That's not really a fair comparison. - 25/04/2013 08:18:35 PM 715 Views
Re: That's not really a fair comparison. - 26/04/2013 02:22:18 AM 682 Views
Re: That's not really a fair comparison. - 26/04/2013 08:58:45 PM 868 Views
I agree with your points, but you've still only listed financial (not technical) problems. - 25/04/2013 08:22:25 PM 730 Views
Finacial problems are technical problems - 25/04/2013 10:19:17 PM 728 Views
Maybe we just have different definitions. - 26/04/2013 09:25:33 PM 771 Views
Re: Maybe we just have different definitions. - 26/04/2013 10:54:11 PM 728 Views
So, suppose someone put you in charge. - 27/04/2013 02:14:44 AM 750 Views
Well that would be a bad idea, but... - 27/04/2013 03:29:47 PM 857 Views
Ask me when I am 60, I adored the Mar Trilogy though *NM* - 24/04/2013 12:54:58 PM 449 Views
It's all about prospects and hard work. - 24/04/2013 03:16:56 PM 856 Views
I wouldn't go like that. - 24/04/2013 05:15:09 PM 768 Views
No, but I wouldn't mind sending a few people there - 25/04/2013 01:52:56 AM 777 Views
Not with that. - 25/04/2013 07:32:40 PM 713 Views
Probably. - 26/04/2013 10:02:58 PM 655 Views
This is by far the most elaborate form of suicide ever proposed. - 10/08/2013 08:04:43 AM 1411 Views

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