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I already explicitly referenced RP at least twice in response to you (also: Still not a DIALECT) Joel Send a noteboard - 10/08/2015 02:33:17 AM

It would save us both much time if you READ my posts before responding.


View original postIn the mid to late 1800s the British changed the way the spoke their language. In their never ending goal to stratify their society and separate the lower class from the betters British schools began teaching students to speak differently for the commoners. The way most Brits would have sounded in 1800 is much closer to how a kid form Virginia would speak than how a kid from London would speak.

Received Pronunciation was a regional, not class, development largely complete BEFORE the British first colonized America: Brits in 1800 London AND Virginia were about equally likely to have an RP accent. "Equally likely" in this case means "not very," since <10% of the UK uses RP even NOW. It never had anything to do with stratifying society either, rather, with the impossible task of standarizing the language, ironically, by masking and neutralizing a speakers native regional accent (even though RP is itself a mainly regional development.) As one scholar put it, "It is the business of educated people to speak so that no-one may be able to tell in what county their childhood was passed."

The advent of radio and television (especially the first) encouraged that view because broadcasts throughout whole nations had to be accessible to an entire audience that spoke in myriad dialect and accents. The Middle Atlantic was developed and promoted around that time on BOTH sides of the Pond, for similar reasons, basically, so no one felt like the anchormen and entertainers on whose ratings networks depended were "foreigners." Imagine claims of "liberal media bias" if every anchor sounded like a Kennedy instead of speaking a bland generic English.


View original postAnd sorry including the dialect of non-native English speaker Really isn't valid. While some of the speak English great many speak a very broken English and use none standard structure. According to the arbitrator of all debated on the internet only about 5-8 percent of India are considered fluent in English so if I was to give you them you still are wrong.

We are not talking about pidgin English, but there are many gradations between it and full fluency: According to that same e-arbiter, fluent speakers are only a QUARTER of Indians capable of normal English conversation (i.e. NOT merely broken non-standard English.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population

There is a difference between non-standard speech and the mostly uniform standard of a different DIALECT: The crux of this discussion. GLOBALLY, an estimated 1.2 billion people speak English well enough for normal conversation; within the US, 300 million use over THIRTY distinct dialects: At MOST maybe 30 million Americans speak any particular dialect; should we really believe those 30 million a plurality of 1200 million English speakers?

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That e-arbiter has a whole article on INDIAN ENGLISH
This message last edited by Joel on 10/08/2015 at 02:35:59 AM
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Y'all, you guys, yous guys, or hey you all? - 25/07/2015 05:38:44 PM 961 Views
Y'all may be the American South's greatest gift to the English language. - 27/07/2015 12:14:47 AM 594 Views
*whistles innocently* - 27/07/2015 04:17:43 AM 728 Views
"Hey, you guys!" is only correct if you are Rita Moreno - 27/07/2015 04:15:07 AM 562 Views
Perhaps, but you're also wrong. - 27/07/2015 04:45:48 AM 795 Views
Both spellings are "correct" to the extent EITHER are. - 27/07/2015 05:04:43 AM 793 Views
Funny.... - 29/07/2015 12:13:35 AM 650 Views
It is also correct if you are Sloth... on a pirate ship... *NM* - 29/07/2015 07:09:56 PM 504 Views
I will defer to you and Jeordam on that one - 29/07/2015 07:45:31 PM 643 Views
well since language is a democracy and the souther dialetic is the largest Y'all wins - 27/07/2015 02:07:22 PM 719 Views
The Southern dialect is the largest by what metric? - 27/07/2015 06:26:20 PM 704 Views
It also the accent most similar to what Victorian brits would have spoken - 27/07/2015 07:45:09 PM 638 Views
Whoa, now: The PIEDMONT accent may be closest to Received Pronunciation, but is not the whole South - 28/07/2015 12:37:56 AM 714 Views
I don't make the catagories but all the southern accents tend to be close *NM* - 28/07/2015 02:12:15 PM 464 Views
Except, as you noted, Virginias accent is closer to Englands (and New Englands, and South Africas) - 28/07/2015 11:00:46 PM 678 Views
that is not what I said - 29/07/2015 02:14:49 PM 697 Views
Sorry, I credited you w/knowing the Deep South, Appalachia and TX sound nothing like any UK accents - 29/07/2015 07:42:21 PM 639 Views
read slower and then read again until you understand what I said - 29/07/2015 08:14:19 PM 907 Views
"The people in the American South were Victorian Brits"?! I must have read that too fast - 29/07/2015 10:39:08 PM 644 Views
Erm. Not really sure what you're saying here... - 29/07/2015 11:35:26 PM 611 Views
Would "UK English" have been better? - 30/07/2015 10:47:53 PM 643 Views
Not really. - 31/07/2015 07:30:41 AM 604 Views
David Crystal estimates proficient non-natives outnumber native English speakers 3:1 - 10/08/2015 02:45:58 AM 592 Views
Interesting stuff. - 10/08/2015 07:12:26 PM 687 Views
what is not now considerd a proper British accent is called Received Pronunciation - 31/07/2015 03:11:36 PM 869 Views
I already explicitly referenced RP at least twice in response to you (also: Still not a DIALECT) - 10/08/2015 02:33:17 AM 874 Views
Who says "yous guys"? Seriously? - 27/07/2015 07:56:28 PM 631 Views
B-movie mobsters - 28/07/2015 12:40:04 AM 810 Views
They said it when I lived in Chicago - 28/07/2015 02:10:27 PM 618 Views
Scots. - 28/07/2015 02:42:28 PM 662 Views
I have heard it a couple of times. - 28/07/2015 03:13:20 PM 604 Views
Isn't fake culture almos the defintion of hipster? *NM* - 28/07/2015 05:18:53 PM 328 Views
Depends, are trying to sound cool, like a douche, or Joe Pesci? *NM* - 29/07/2015 07:12:28 PM 512 Views
The distinction between the first two is negligible - 29/07/2015 07:52:50 PM 643 Views

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