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Re: I don't think he won by default, and that was his primary issue. Isaac Send a noteboard - 05/02/2010 03:52:23 PM
For one thing, elections are NEVER won by default (again, see: Kerry, John. )


All POTUS election are about getting a majority of the roughly third in the middle while getting the majority of your sides rough third to give time and money and show up to vote. There hardly only about one thing, but usually one factor is dominant and makes up at least a big chunk of the vote gap.

Boll weevil Dems never really came back, nor will. That was the "Southern Strategys" final payoff so less said the better; hopefully 2008 put that thinking with its fellows on historys rubbish heap.


I don't think Boll Weevil sorts and 'Reagan Democrat' are synonyms.

Maybe not a true mandate, but I think it's safe to say universal healthcare polled a lot better in November '92 than summer of '93 despite the fact the government hadn't actually DONE anything (sound familiar?) I still remember the insurance industries media barrage of "husband and wife" actors discussing the terrors of having health insurance that actually provided effective and affordable healthcare. It's stunning to see how quickly a little ad money can convince the public they don't want what they said they did.


It did poll better, campaign stump speeches aren't the same as bills. Lots of stuff, right or left, sounds good on the stump, and the guy saying it thinks it works too, once they get into office they start having the tiny little flaws pointed out. "Thou shall not kill" gets "except in self-defense" tacked on, then "or in defense of others" and "Thou shall not kill furry animals for kicks" and so on. It's sounds great to say 'everyone will be taught to read' but as I'll discuss later in regard to the HDI, this is not necessarily that laudible a goal. Clinton's mistake was over-estimating intiial support and not realizing how much damage opposition could do to that support, this happens a lot, they believe in something so much they assume a good argument will make people change sides, and that the provacateurs of that opposition will be exposed as evil scoundrels. Blinders, they don't believe (CLinton or Obama or their supporters) that there are legtimate objections and people might not see through the BS because it isn't all BS.

You are entitled to believe what you wish, but other developed countries have the same life saving/extending procedures we do; they just tend to be more accessible to people with little or no private insurance in those countries, and saying that people there wait for weeks or months for non-critical care they couldn't receive AT ALL here doesn't change that. It makes for nice rhetoric, but while people ARE rushing over the Rio Grande for medical care they can't get at home, at such a rate it's breaking the system, they're going TO Mexico, not FROM it.


Yes, they do have most of thos eprocedures, this is called drafting, where a truck or bicyclist follow right behind the lead guy to save fuel or energy. We produce a huge amount of research on medicine, direct and indirect, and we primarily pay for it while others get it for free, relatively speaking, they get way more than they pitch in in terms of dollars per unit of new tech developed. A country can stay pretty much with the leader by investing no more money into research than the price for journal subscriptions. I don't blame them for this, they research too and nobody expects them to ignore our advances, but you have to remember that as a factor.

I can pretty much guarantee you Obamas mandate wasn't "limit my damage award when medical incompetence kills my only bread winner. " The whole bipartisan thing is getting a little tired; when a minority Senator is sending out emails that completely ignore the issue or possible reforms, but urge other members to "make healthcare Obamas Waterloo" it's kinda hard to think the failure is just Democratic stubbornness. Especially when it's the same GOP that got those Dem votes for "PATRIOT" and the IWR by daring Democrats to vote against it. Again, if the loyal opposition doesn't like the majoritys proposal, make a better one (which was the great failing of Kerry et alia. ) We just recently discussed the far greater tendency of liberals than conservatives to break with their party; liberals usually want "change" which can be defined myriad ways, but there aren't many variations on "keep everything as it is now. "


You have an honest objection to be people on the otherside of a political disagreement trying to defeat someone and saying so? That's just semantics, we don't like what he's doing and think it will hurt us, we want to see him lose. Constant references to how the GOP wants Obama to fail are pretty close to whining. If a lib smirks about some company been exposed for corruption, he's not smirking because he's happy the company was corrupt, is he? Same thing.

Unfortunately, "reform" from the latter usually means eliminating previous intended remedies rather than addressing any of the problems that created them. Again, I find it interesting that most of the "downsize government" crowd sees to see the only valuable healthcare "reform" to be the federal government interfering with citizen juries in civil trials (which incidentally flies in the face of the spirit if not (necessarily) the letter of the Seventh Amendment. ) There are much better ways to stop private insurers raising malpractice insurance premiums (and consequently healthcare costs) then ALSO raising healthcare premiums as a direct result. I'm well aware how high a priority industry friendly tort reforms are for the GOP, not just in healthcare, but across the board, but just because they're trying to use the real demand for healthcare reform as a Trojan horse to advance that agenda doesn't mean they suddenly care about HEALTHCARE (rather than tort) reform. It's funny how we keep hearing about evil trial lawyers like John Edwards representing individuals and never hear a word about FIRMS of evil trial lawyers on retainer just WAITING for the call to come fight them.


We rail about them too. The whole thing, we feel there should be a limit as to how much someone can get for damages and pain and suffering, you limit that, lot of those guys on retainer have to find a new job, because companies won't spend millions keeping people on retainer when they don't have to worry about theatric SOBS like Edwards swaying a jury to award someone 3 million for dumping a cup of coffee on themselves.

It wasn't just "a" poll, it was everyone of which I'm aware. And I was tracking a LOT of them, with help doing so from EVP. In fact, given that EVP does its projections by averaging all published polls (except partisan ones like PPP and Strategic Vision) and giving extra weight to the most recent, and given their election day projection had Kerry winning FL by the 5% he lost it by, it's probably best to let the matter of "fuzzy math" slide. Kerry ran a SORRY campaign, right up till the end, when, despite promising for months that "every vote will count and every vote will be counted" he conceded while OH (and thus the Presidency) was still very much in doubt.


Seems to me a lot of those polls have said they feel they were using bad demographic set ups. I think Bush did gain some in the final month, but mostly I think the polls simply used poor weighting, last I checked most had adjusted for it.

I have. Repeatedly. The way he's conducted his personal life in the past few years is shameful and disappointing, but he's a mill workers son who earned his college degree rather than being a legacy like Bush and Kerry, and made his professional career representing people injured by incompetence and negligence, facing and beating the various firms of evil trial lawyers the responsible parties dialed up to contest that.


I admire anyone who call pull themselves up, assuming they do it in an honorable way, coming from a poor background does not excuse poor behavior. Coming from a wealthy background does not dismiss someone's own successes. That most of the people on the very top did not start on the very bottom just means there a re a lot of smart people there too and it's a bit easier to make it to the very top when you start halfway up, and luck is always a factor in success, you don't need to roll high as many times, that so many have risen from the very bottom, or darn near it, is a testament to the greatness of the current system.

Try looking at HDI, which factors both the metrics you cite (plus literacy rates. ) You may debate how it weights each one, but it's not ignoring any. We're not number one; we're number thirteen and FALLING (Norway is number one, because Iceland, almost as a nation, got suckered into that laissez-faire Ponzi scheme with high risk mortgages, and suffered the same fate as everyone else involved, without the benefit of a US government bailout. ) In other words, our standard of living is NOT still higher than most Western European countries or Canadas, and hasn't been for some time. That may not play well with the jingoists, but it's documented fact. When I say "slipping relative to theirs" I mean "theirs is higher AND rising faster" not "ours is still higher but theirs is rising faster. "


As many have pointed out, HDI's big flaw is that it tends to measure how Scandanavian a country is. And while I understand the appeal of including education into things, that's an academics bias and really shouldn't be in there, especially with literacy making up 2/3 of it's weight. The other third is basically a measure of what percentage of the population you have in school, sounds nice, to max it out you need 100% of your pop in school. I'm a college grad, I value knowledge, but I don't believe education, especially as HDI measures it, should be on the HDI, better to just do flat IQ tests or something. Although this runs rather contrary to the 'ignorance is bliss' concept.

Pop in there real quick with the other chunk of the ed factor, basically higher education, I hate to sound like a technocrat but I simply don't believe that all degrees, from basket-weaving to hrd science deserve equal weight on there. I say basket-weaving to avoid giving anyone offense but there are a lot of junk degrees. Weighting these the same seems innately flawed. Not too mention it has a public ed bias anyway, I never finished a year of school after fifth grade. Nor did I receive any sort of regular exterior education, and yet I clearly learned far more in the interregnum to college than most, and while I value my college ed, I have learned far more in the time since then I did during, which are nearly equal in length.

There's not much room for doubt, this is an index made by liberal academics that biases towards making their own background basically superior. A prof will score highest in ed, they tend to have a longer LE than average, their income is above the GDPpc and the log kicks in to make the wealthy only marginally happier.

This weighting is very improtant, because every western country ranks between about .95 and .97, so even tiny amounts can make a huge difference. That thing is equal parts education, LE, and GDPpc, that's absurd. Literacy by itself is very nearly as important as GDPpc or LE.

Note also how GDPpc is done on a log curve, where as the other two are linear - that's not exactly a good way to do things. Now, where education increases life pleasure, nobody in any of those countries has illeriterate people who would otherwise be bookworms. If you haven't learned to read decently by 12 you are unlikely to every be a bookworm whose life is significantly improved by being literate, so it's a flat academic bias.

There is a .17 difference between a LE of 65 years and 55 years. Sounds good, but Literacy, being weight as 75% of LE by itself, which translates to 22%, so a country with a 95% literacy rate and a LE of 55 years is considered equal to a country with an LE of 65 years and a literacy rate of 73%, isn't that absurd? Especially since education is already ultimately there in GDPpc, since educated people statistically earn more? Double counting, but after education has too much weight? A ten percent higher literacy rate is all it takes to move from the bottom of the upper rung countries to the top. Let's remember, Iceland was #1 on that list and has dropped to #3, with a bank crash of epic proportions. Does that sound very accurate?

This isn't science after all - look at that index, a high schooler could easily use it and there is no 'scientific' basis for it's conclusions - You want to measure how arbitrary something is, lots of 0's and 5's at the end tend to be a good indicator.

It's junk, utter garbage, they meant well and probably think they did well, but this index is constantly cited by people when it is so much arbitrary trash. When all three factors are equally weighted at 33%, arbitrarily, to point out any difference of around 2% has all the validity of flipping a coin six times and claiming it's weighted because it comes up heads every time is foolish, flipping a coin six times and getting heads each time is, incidentally, going to happen about 2% of the time.

Now, the other flaw, logs for GDPpc and linear for the other two. And yes, I know that the relationship they offer for LE is not linear with age itself by having that 25 year min in there, though education is flat linear, LE is adjusted linear. Sure, being twice as wealthy doesn't make one twice as happy, though on this it would only be 33% more happy if they had it linear, but at the same time, it isn't a measure of individual wealth to begin with. It's the GDP of a country divided by the pop. That means it also represents the tax base, and government expenditures on the social good are not going to curve in net effect in the same way a personal increase in wealth will effect happiness.

Now, shouldn't those other two be logs? Someone living to 60 gets a LE value of 58%, wherease someone living to 70 gets 75%, sounds about right, someone living to 85 gets 100% and values above that (which do not currently exist) still list as 100%. Artificial caps do weird things to stats when you use them as adjustors. Throw in values for most of the great historical civilizations and you'd be lucky to get .05, I really don't think my quality of life is 20 times or more that of someone living in Plato's Greece. Clearly those should be logged too, literacy should not be 25% of the score, which is what 75% of 33% is.

Seriously, I don't think the average person, especially after subtracting additional wealth of education already accounted for in GDPpc, derive 25% of their happines and life quality from being able to read. Most can, all those top countries have pulic ed until one reaches majority, so the people who can't read after that clearly aren't the sorts to be reading novels for fun. You want that weighted in, you probably need to have library usage and book/newspaper sales factoring with it. Then you at least have a decent benchmark for how much people are benefiting from their literacy outside of their income.

Anyone who hasn't learned to read after 12 years or so of school (or even 6) with all those places having special programs for those who have reading disabilities in school, is probably not worth expending additional efforts on teaching to read, it's wasted money. All people being equal and such, I'd argue that beyond a certain percentage, unless the place in question is using a clearly superior teaching method, a higher rate is actually a sign of lower SoL,. because resources diverted into that aren't buying luxuries or feeding the poor or researching vaccines.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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Who's to say YOU really know what's happening in Washington, though? - 02/02/2010 01:41:20 AM 631 Views
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Or should I say... ? *NM* - 02/02/2010 01:51:03 AM 245 Views
I Don't watch tv - 02/02/2010 02:29:53 AM 592 Views
not to mention those who mistake knowledge for understanding - 02/02/2010 10:41:14 PM 444 Views
Even so. - 05/02/2010 05:45:54 AM 468 Views
Like the NYT? - 05/02/2010 02:12:36 PM 502 Views
I don't believe the Times has ever conceded bias. - 05/02/2010 06:03:02 PM 524 Views
and neither does Fox so I am not sure that matters - 05/02/2010 06:40:15 PM 565 Views
Note that I didn't mention Fox (or anyone, for that matter. ) - 05/02/2010 07:13:31 PM 498 Views
PBS is biased - 05/02/2010 07:21:14 PM 470 Views
You're entitled to believe that. - 05/02/2010 07:31:07 PM 600 Views
PBS has an obvious yet undeclared bias so does NPR - 09/02/2010 04:47:53 AM 433 Views
We have been for some time. - 02/02/2010 03:31:10 AM 496 Views
I don't think that's the case - 03/02/2010 02:59:50 PM 476 Views
Universal healthcare was the primary plank in Clintons '92 platform. - 04/02/2010 10:02:18 AM 460 Views
That does not mean his bare plurality was an endorsement of National Healthcare - 04/02/2010 02:09:32 PM 589 Views
I don't think he won by default, and that was his primary issue. - 05/02/2010 08:09:50 AM 601 Views
Re: I don't think he won by default, and that was his primary issue. - 05/02/2010 03:52:23 PM 558 Views
[insert witty subject line here] - 06/02/2010 02:15:21 AM 588 Views
Let me break this into multiple replies here - 06/02/2010 07:45:36 PM 568 Views
'K - 08/02/2010 01:22:12 PM 551 Views
Probably time to go into 'summary mode' - 08/02/2010 07:34:55 PM 580 Views
Again, we're back to "how would you prefer to do it?" - 09/02/2010 09:42:51 AM 605 Views
Any way that works, which currently probably is none - 09/02/2010 06:12:41 PM 544 Views
I think HDI is more accurate than nothing, though it certainly needs some fine tuning. - 10/02/2010 11:03:08 AM 594 Views
Sorry for the delay... - 12/02/2010 11:40:21 PM 685 Views
NP, life happens. - 15/02/2010 02:06:55 PM 680 Views
I'll play a bigger age card since it was my third election to vote in and he won because of Perot - 05/02/2010 05:57:04 PM 482 Views
Let's put it another way: Why did Dems nominate him instead of, say, Gephardt? - 06/02/2010 02:22:04 AM 553 Views
you don't get mandates from primaries - 08/02/2010 02:12:29 PM 452 Views
No, but end of the day more people wanted healthcare than didn't. - 08/02/2010 03:09:31 PM 464 Views
everyone want health care they just don't want congress runnig it - 09/02/2010 04:56:44 AM 501 Views
Whom do you prefer? - 09/02/2010 10:07:39 AM 523 Views
Sorry not a big fan of socialism I hear it big over in Europe though - 09/02/2010 02:23:55 PM 424 Views
I prefer Thomas Woods Jr's description of bipartisanship - 02/02/2010 02:49:06 AM 485 Views
If only someone had stood up on 8 December, 1941 and said, "hey, you're not supposed to do stuff!" - 02/02/2010 03:28:38 AM 633 Views
you're making a good job taking things out of context, Joel - 03/02/2010 12:47:57 PM 453 Views
Pearl Harbor would never have happened to a classically liberal nation - 05/02/2010 01:33:56 AM 477 Views
Maybe; Billy Mitchell might debate that were he alive. - 05/02/2010 05:34:54 AM 590 Views
Wow - that was a dumb statement even for you! - 05/02/2010 04:22:59 PM 657 Views
Some information and a question - 02/03/2010 05:49:20 AM 994 Views
Or the democratic party has shifted so far to to the left they can't even get all of the dems - 02/02/2010 02:39:14 PM 455 Views
You didn't hear all the whining when Bush was in charge with a Republican Congress? - 02/02/2010 08:50:05 PM 472 Views
I there was plenty of whining going on - 02/02/2010 10:36:56 PM 399 Views
Is this you conceding that the GOP is being obstructionist? - 08/02/2010 01:43:04 PM 430 Views
I agree they are obstructing the libs from doing whatever they want - 08/02/2010 02:19:13 PM 358 Views
They've tried including Republicans in drafting bills. - 08/02/2010 03:08:17 PM 516 Views
tyring to pcik off one republican is not including republicans - 09/02/2010 05:03:44 AM 464 Views
Um... sorry, man.... - 10/02/2010 11:06:22 AM 637 Views

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