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Oh? snoopcester Send a noteboard - 19/02/2010 02:42:57 PM
I believe that the throat cutting method isn't any LESS humane.


I remember a couple of years ago (maybe slightly longer) a couple of different reports came out both saying it was less humane - as the animals were unsedated and weren't stunned they suffered more trauma and also that if the cut was even slightly off the blood wouldn't drain as quickly so they'd take longer to die.

If I remember correctly (and I may not), the biggest reason why the slaughter houses don't use it is because it's inefficient. They do drain the blood (and collect it to sell), but they do it in motion by running the carcasses along the line over a trough (essentially).


The efficiency might well be a driving factor. I think the difference on blood draining is that it is done just as a part of the slaughter process while for the meat to be halal it is a key issue that every drop of blood possible must be removed.

If they had to actually kill the animal that way, their production times would slow down, because you couldn't dress the animal or move it on down the line until it was dead.
*MySmiley*

Robert Graves "There is no money in poetry, but then there is no poetry in money, either."

Henning Mankell "We must defend the open society, because if we start locking our doors, if we let fear decide, the person who committed the act of terror will win"
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French fast food chain goes halal Aisha - 19/02/2010 06:34:59 AM 1616 Views
that isn't unusual at all...I don't see the big deal LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 06:42:58 AM 598 Views
...how is it "discriminatory?" beetnemesis - 19/02/2010 06:49:24 AM 1067 Views
just as a note LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 01:06:30 PM 695 Views
(It wasn't a reference to Hinduism) beetnemesis - 19/02/2010 05:29:40 PM 682 Views
yah. that's hinduism LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 05:52:41 PM 771 Views
Makes sense beetnemesis - 19/02/2010 06:12:49 PM 709 Views
Not necessarily prejudiced or bigots Insolitus - 19/02/2010 12:03:17 PM 1009 Views
Not sure that works snoopcester - 19/02/2010 12:58:20 PM 753 Views
it's not discrimination in the slightest LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 01:13:03 PM 877 Views
That was my point snoopcester - 19/02/2010 01:22:55 PM 786 Views
sorry LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 01:29:11 PM 719 Views
No problem snoopcester - 19/02/2010 02:02:46 PM 725 Views
Re: Not sure that works Insolitus - 19/02/2010 01:44:27 PM 718 Views
Re: Not sure that works snoopcester - 19/02/2010 02:15:37 PM 874 Views
Re: Not sure that works Insolitus - 19/02/2010 02:33:30 PM 966 Views
dude. Every time anyone makes a choice, it's discrimination. LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 02:40:18 PM 784 Views
Re: dude. Every time anyone makes a choice, it's discrimination. Insolitus - 19/02/2010 03:22:14 PM 876 Views
yes, how dare a shop specialize LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 03:44:59 PM 690 Views
Indeed *NM* Insolitus - 19/02/2010 03:53:28 PM 375 Views
...I don't think that's a thing? beetnemesis - 19/02/2010 05:31:52 PM 729 Views
To the contrary Isaac - 19/02/2010 07:07:40 PM 768 Views
the restaurant does not have 100% halal food. LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 07:40:52 PM 719 Views
It was more of an answer to beetnemesis's hypothetical comment Isaac - 19/02/2010 08:18:58 PM 860 Views
I thought that they were still serving fish, at least? *NM* LadyLorraine - 20/02/2010 02:24:21 AM 433 Views
hahahaha Aisha - 20/02/2010 01:01:07 AM 821 Views
Re: hahahaha Isaac - 20/02/2010 04:10:31 AM 749 Views
Interesting beetnemesis - 20/02/2010 04:01:17 AM 746 Views
Keep in mind that France doesn't have remotely near as many fastfood restaurants as the US... Legolas - 19/02/2010 01:23:49 PM 946 Views
but what's wrong with eating halal meat? LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 01:33:17 PM 781 Views
Nothing per se, it's largely symbolic. I'm not sure how large the changes in the menu actually are. Legolas - 19/02/2010 01:42:54 PM 905 Views
Not a theologian, are we? Isaac - 19/02/2010 02:06:38 PM 864 Views
but is it the jews and observant christians complaining? LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 02:30:58 PM 719 Views
I've no clue Isaac - 19/02/2010 02:46:53 PM 900 Views
why would they be serving pork at a fast food anyways? LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 02:53:36 PM 699 Views
I checked the standard menu - other than one special burger with bacon, it's true there's no pork. *NM* Legolas - 19/02/2010 02:55:44 PM 354 Views
my point is how many fast food places have pork? LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 03:06:44 PM 709 Views
Well normally bacon is considered pork Isaac - 19/02/2010 03:07:45 PM 710 Views
Dude, it's France. They don't do English breakfasts. Legolas - 19/02/2010 03:19:48 PM 868 Views
American Breakfast, the english stole it from us Isaac - 19/02/2010 03:36:42 PM 797 Views
They put salt on their fries here, tons of it in fact... Legolas - 19/02/2010 03:48:06 PM 841 Views
Re: They put salt on their fries here, tons of it in fact... Isaac - 19/02/2010 04:16:22 PM 852 Views
Not a theologian, are we? snoopcester - 19/02/2010 02:31:17 PM 730 Views
from what we discussed in Meat Sciene LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 02:35:59 PM 782 Views
Oh? snoopcester - 19/02/2010 02:42:57 PM 789 Views
you could probably argue that it is less humane LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 02:54:32 PM 692 Views
Re: Not a theologian, are we? lyringlas - 19/02/2010 04:03:41 PM 944 Views
Re: Not a theologian, are we? Isaac - 19/02/2010 04:51:14 PM 844 Views
Re: Not a theologian, are we? lyringlas - 19/02/2010 04:54:26 PM 907 Views
Re: Not a theologian, are we? Isaac - 19/02/2010 05:03:28 PM 695 Views
Re: Not a theologian, are we? lyringlas - 19/02/2010 06:10:50 PM 705 Views
Upper tip Isaac - 19/02/2010 06:14:06 PM 656 Views
Re: but what's wrong with eating halal meat? Sareitha Sedai - 19/02/2010 02:33:14 PM 815 Views
+1 The Shrike - 19/02/2010 07:07:36 PM 710 Views
It is a MacDonalds not public service provider random thoughts - 19/02/2010 08:11:36 PM 720 Views
Oh, and then there's something else, though I don't know if it's a factor here... Legolas - 19/02/2010 02:41:46 PM 740 Views
Re: Keep in mind that France doesn't have remotely near as many fastfood restaurants as the US... snoopcester - 19/02/2010 01:57:15 PM 848 Views
That's what I was thinking too. Lupine - 19/02/2010 06:04:02 PM 872 Views
You think the reasons are as objective as that ? AgentOrange - 19/02/2010 02:24:36 PM 668 Views
I wouldn't exactly call the reasons I named "objective", myself. Legolas - 19/02/2010 02:37:56 PM 787 Views
Haha, yeah AgentOrange - 19/02/2010 07:24:00 PM 699 Views
Simply put : Many are afraid France is being taken over by the Muslims. AgentOrange - 19/02/2010 02:14:19 PM 816 Views
Re: Simply put : Many are afraid France is being taken over by the Muslims. lyringlas - 19/02/2010 05:02:18 PM 743 Views
Are you refering to something specific ? AgentOrange - 19/02/2010 07:18:38 PM 758 Views
Re: Are you refering to something specific ? lyringlas - 19/02/2010 07:21:35 PM 645 Views
In a sense that's what blocked the inclusion of Turkey into the EU. AgentOrange - 19/02/2010 07:26:51 PM 663 Views
Re: In a sense that's what blocked the inclusion of Turkey into the EU. lyringlas - 19/02/2010 07:30:33 PM 684 Views
The question there is what's pretext and what's actual reason. Legolas - 19/02/2010 08:53:44 PM 727 Views
Re: The question there is what's pretext and what's actual reason. lyringlas - 19/02/2010 08:55:53 PM 777 Views
Why are such politicians automatically "crazy" ßelals Girl - 19/02/2010 10:16:53 PM 824 Views
yep. *NM* AgentOrange - 20/02/2010 12:09:56 PM 345 Views
Really can't see why people would get so worked up random thoughts - 19/02/2010 03:57:37 PM 649 Views
No big deal.. Kel - 19/02/2010 04:16:08 PM 742 Views
i can't see why it matters that they did. i think it's great. *NM* temeraire - 19/02/2010 05:23:44 PM 411 Views
So, what is the difference between Halal Beef and normal beef? *NM* MightyYT - 19/02/2010 07:06:21 PM 334 Views
the way it is killed. *NM* jh - 19/02/2010 07:26:02 PM 430 Views
Call me an obvious bigot and prejudiced then. I think the way they did this is bad. The Shrike - 19/02/2010 07:10:40 PM 755 Views
Having two sources of meat would raise prices even more beetnemesis - 19/02/2010 07:56:21 PM 706 Views
Not to mention the fact that anything served as halal would have to be cooked separately Floffe - 19/02/2010 10:55:06 PM 671 Views
I wonder how teh Saudis or Iranians would react... Dragonsoul - 19/02/2010 08:51:11 PM 721 Views
most halal foods would always qualify as kosher, i believe. LadyLorraine - 20/02/2010 02:26:49 AM 658 Views
Nope. But it does work the other way around. *NM* AgentOrange - 20/02/2010 04:50:26 AM 351 Views
fair enough, then *NM* LadyLorraine - 20/02/2010 05:56:00 AM 503 Views
yupp, kosher counts as halal, halal is not kosher though *NM* Aisha - 20/02/2010 12:55:30 PM 454 Views
So let me get this straight... Dragonsoul - 20/02/2010 08:42:04 AM 841 Views
wow. first of all FRANCE is changing nothing LadyLorraine - 20/02/2010 06:28:27 PM 814 Views
I think you missed his point beckstcw - 20/02/2010 10:12:18 PM 713 Views
There are many answers one could give, but the most basic one is quite simple... Legolas - 20/02/2010 10:20:14 PM 833 Views
And yet having come of their own free will... Dragonsoul - 20/02/2010 11:11:51 PM 709 Views
Way to read half a post. I am impressed. jh - 21/02/2010 12:10:39 AM 713 Views
It always starts small. Dragonsoul - 21/02/2010 12:32:11 AM 676 Views
Awesome, you figured out their master plan!! LadyLorraine - 21/02/2010 02:06:27 AM 780 Views
Like I said... Dragonsoul - 21/02/2010 08:43:32 AM 734 Views
and really... in this case it's a private enterprise we're talking about AgentOrange - 21/02/2010 12:55:27 AM 676 Views
exactly. *NM* LadyLorraine - 21/02/2010 02:06:57 AM 463 Views
Oh I know, don't get me wrong. I was trying to clarify *NM* beckstcw - 21/02/2010 04:13:19 AM 379 Views
I didn't miss it, I just thought it wasn't worth noting. LadyLorraine - 21/02/2010 02:11:14 AM 947 Views
Re: wow. first of all FRANCE is changing nothing Dragonsoul - 20/02/2010 10:13:12 PM 888 Views
Yes, i'm sure there is no other restaurant in that whole area. LadyLorraine - 21/02/2010 02:04:29 AM 829 Views
that's not the point. Dragonsoul - 21/02/2010 08:46:14 AM 755 Views
dude. your 'THEY" did not do anything. LadyLorraine - 21/02/2010 03:01:48 PM 812 Views
So if your French every restaurant should only be allowed to serve what you want served? random thoughts - 22/02/2010 07:18:00 PM 706 Views
I don't think French society should be forced to consume Islamic food. Dragonsoul - 23/02/2010 01:31:03 AM 695 Views
No one is forcing anyone to do anything. LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 02:47:56 AM 754 Views
Sure they are. Dragonsoul - 23/02/2010 03:05:12 AM 732 Views
well they apparently still have 354 of that particular restaurant LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 03:20:07 AM 687 Views
Don't you get it? LiterateDog - 23/02/2010 03:51:09 AM 667 Views
Actually they're not ragheads. Dragonsoul - 23/02/2010 03:43:14 PM 682 Views
If you have a sarcasm meter, you might want to switch it on. *NM* LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 05:37:41 PM 329 Views
Indeed, 354 throughout the whole of France, which actually isn't that many. Dragonsoul - 23/02/2010 03:42:30 PM 712 Views
how many French people starved to death before McDonalds opened? random thoughts - 23/02/2010 04:30:32 PM 743 Views
Millions Isaac - 23/02/2010 04:41:23 PM 697 Views
Huh. Sareitha Sedai - 23/02/2010 06:10:17 PM 682 Views
They are not forced to do anything snoopcester - 23/02/2010 04:41:35 PM 668 Views
So Muslims should be forced to eat French food because the French are lazy to open more restaurants? random thoughts - 23/02/2010 04:43:13 AM 630 Views
well don't you see? LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 12:41:40 PM 734 Views
Re: well don't you see? ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 05:02:16 PM 677 Views
I agree with you. *NM* Rebekah - 23/02/2010 05:10:53 PM 324 Views
This is meant to be an edit... Rebekah - 23/02/2010 05:14:23 PM 738 Views
I agree, Bekah, but it's not like there's not a middle ground LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 05:25:30 PM 678 Views
It's the sheer numbers that are worrisome ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 06:25:17 PM 827 Views
That assumes a great deal LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 06:52:41 PM 798 Views
Re: That assumes a great deal ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 08:00:28 PM 826 Views
Very true. Test case: Lebanon AgentOrange - 24/02/2010 12:26:43 AM 682 Views
Really? snoopcester - 24/02/2010 10:02:18 AM 673 Views
What he's referring to... Legolas - 24/02/2010 10:20:22 AM 844 Views
Oh that, that I knew with the political system snoopcester - 24/02/2010 10:57:08 AM 681 Views
Re: This is meant to be an edit... ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 05:43:03 PM 886 Views
Well, biologically speaking, it is healthier for the gene pool. LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 06:55:11 PM 695 Views
"Propaganda"? Kind of exaggerating there... Legolas - 23/02/2010 07:48:39 PM 809 Views
How is it not propaganda? ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 08:31:12 PM 866 Views
I can certainly see your vitrol. Now I'm a bit confused though. LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 08:54:54 PM 716 Views
Re: I can certainly see your vitrol. Now I'm a bit confused though. ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 09:08:33 PM 1143 Views
your view point is idealistic, I think LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 09:24:08 PM 979 Views
I guess one would have to see the documentary to really judge. Legolas - 23/02/2010 08:58:47 PM 819 Views
The language really isn't the problem in France. Legolas - 23/02/2010 08:15:52 PM 824 Views
I will conceed that point ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 08:53:26 PM 814 Views
Oh yeah, definitely, re: your point about Americans *NM* Legolas - 23/02/2010 09:00:20 PM 341 Views
Our differing opinion does not make us wrong. or that you are. LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 09:07:38 PM 857 Views
I'm not dismissing the problem entirely. LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 09:03:50 PM 814 Views
Well. I wasn't necessarily specifying France. *NM* Rebekah - 23/02/2010 09:48:44 PM 349 Views
But a lot of them were already in a part of France or had been born in a part of France snoopcester - 23/02/2010 05:30:24 PM 698 Views
*gasp* There are no French Muslims!! LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 05:36:38 PM 828 Views
Or! snoopcester - 24/02/2010 10:04:44 AM 921 Views
It's funny because it's true - Algeria was administratively a part of France, iirc. *NM* Legolas - 23/02/2010 07:51:17 PM 291 Views
It does make the situation more complicated snoopcester - 24/02/2010 10:30:28 AM 749 Views
Why should you have to completely change who you are? LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 05:35:51 PM 677 Views
Yes, of course ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 05:48:10 PM 676 Views
Yes, but the difference was I knew it was hyperbole LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 07:01:49 PM 667 Views
Re: Yes, but the difference was I knew it was hyperbole ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 07:38:54 PM 816 Views
So they should be treated as less because they're immigrants? LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 07:45:16 PM 742 Views
They're not Turks, they're mostly from France's old colonies. Legolas - 23/02/2010 08:10:25 PM 676 Views
The French didn't seem to feel the need to go native when they were in Middle Eastern countries random thoughts - 23/02/2010 05:55:28 PM 930 Views
What are you refering to? ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 06:00:45 PM 708 Views
Brush up on your history then random thoughts - 23/02/2010 06:25:53 PM 731 Views
Thank you ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 06:34:19 PM 675 Views
I would think that simply having McDonalds there is a greater threat to French cultrue random thoughts - 23/02/2010 06:52:34 PM 804 Views
This. well stated. *NM* LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 07:03:47 PM 327 Views
Why thank you *NM* random thoughts - 23/02/2010 11:49:22 PM 322 Views
They had Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, and for a while Lebanon and Syria. Legolas - 23/02/2010 08:00:08 PM 886 Views
Many? Floffe - 23/02/2010 07:40:06 AM 737 Views
sorry I thought it was a restaurant random thoughts - 23/02/2010 04:41:39 AM 689 Views
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