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How is it not propaganda? ßelals Girl Send a noteboard - 23/02/2010 08:31:12 PM
At least going by what he told me (I'll assume it's true for the sake of argument), the documentary had little to no science backing it up and was extremely one-sided. If you had replaced "Mixed-Race" with "Aryan" I think plenty of people would consider it propaganda.

And I find it rather ironic that in a discussion about identity and feeling that one's identity is threatened, there are several Americans in this thread talking about "McDonalds" instead of the actual chain's name, as if clearly every hamburger restaurant chain has to be the American McDonalds, whatever silly name those foreigners come up with. ;) After all, if there's one country in Europe that sees threats to its cultural identity coming not just from the Muslim immigrants but also from the USA, it's France.


Wait, so this restaurant isn't McDonalds? I thought it was. I'd would definitely call it Mimeburgers or whatever if that's the name, but everyone was calling it McDonalds, so I assumed they were indeed talking about McDonalds.

EDIT: Oh, I re-read. It's called "Quick." I shall refer to it as that in the future :)

And I don't blame them for wanting to limit American cultural influence either. They are France, not America Jr.

Another irony is you talking about how French "native" culture is supposedly so under pressure, considering the way Paris has tried for several centuries now (and largely succeeded) to repress regional cultures and languages within the French borders - Breton, Occitan, Savoyard, Alsacien, the lot of them.


Yes, I'm actually quite aware of that, but I didn't want to compound the issue. I turn into a raging volcano of vitriol when talking about Elsass-Lothringen and France's fairly sucessful de-Germanization of the area, but regardless of that, I don't want to see the same happen to French culture. I want to get the other cultures out from under france's boot, yes, but I also want to see french culture remain. And I don't even like France :P

I don't disagree with your basic point, and as you can see in my initial reply to this discussion, I too have sympathy for those among the French who feel threatened by this kind of thing. But you're going a bit far by my taste when you start giving the impression the past was so much better and French had its idyllic culture and whatnot. The few Breton nationalists that remain may have a rather different opinion on that.


No, I don't think everything was better in the past. One drawback of ethnic nations is the oppression of other ethnic groups. But those were pre-existing cultural groups that France conquered/oppressed, not people immigrating to France. Obviously it is wrong to make the former be French, but I don't think it is wrong to expect people voluntarily moving to France to assimilate.

I just worry about Europe. In their quest to avoid the former situation, they seem to have become lax about the latter, and it worries me. It worries me for all of Europe (France just happens to be the country we're talking about right now). But everything I've said about france I would say about the other European nations as well. Even Poland :P

Also, there are still a few Breton Nationalists around? That makes my heart happy :)
This message last edited by ßelals Girl on 23/02/2010 at 08:38:03 PM
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French fast food chain goes halal Aisha - 19/02/2010 06:34:59 AM 1582 Views
that isn't unusual at all...I don't see the big deal LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 06:42:58 AM 558 Views
...how is it "discriminatory?" beetnemesis - 19/02/2010 06:49:24 AM 1031 Views
just as a note LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 01:06:30 PM 653 Views
(It wasn't a reference to Hinduism) beetnemesis - 19/02/2010 05:29:40 PM 651 Views
yah. that's hinduism LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 05:52:41 PM 723 Views
Makes sense beetnemesis - 19/02/2010 06:12:49 PM 668 Views
Not necessarily prejudiced or bigots Insolitus - 19/02/2010 12:03:17 PM 963 Views
Not sure that works snoopcester - 19/02/2010 12:58:20 PM 719 Views
it's not discrimination in the slightest LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 01:13:03 PM 840 Views
That was my point snoopcester - 19/02/2010 01:22:55 PM 749 Views
sorry LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 01:29:11 PM 678 Views
No problem snoopcester - 19/02/2010 02:02:46 PM 679 Views
Re: Not sure that works Insolitus - 19/02/2010 01:44:27 PM 676 Views
Re: Not sure that works snoopcester - 19/02/2010 02:15:37 PM 828 Views
Re: Not sure that works Insolitus - 19/02/2010 02:33:30 PM 916 Views
dude. Every time anyone makes a choice, it's discrimination. LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 02:40:18 PM 743 Views
Re: dude. Every time anyone makes a choice, it's discrimination. Insolitus - 19/02/2010 03:22:14 PM 841 Views
yes, how dare a shop specialize LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 03:44:59 PM 656 Views
Indeed *NM* Insolitus - 19/02/2010 03:53:28 PM 354 Views
...I don't think that's a thing? beetnemesis - 19/02/2010 05:31:52 PM 693 Views
To the contrary Isaac - 19/02/2010 07:07:40 PM 733 Views
the restaurant does not have 100% halal food. LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 07:40:52 PM 683 Views
It was more of an answer to beetnemesis's hypothetical comment Isaac - 19/02/2010 08:18:58 PM 825 Views
I thought that they were still serving fish, at least? *NM* LadyLorraine - 20/02/2010 02:24:21 AM 414 Views
hahahaha Aisha - 20/02/2010 01:01:07 AM 777 Views
Re: hahahaha Isaac - 20/02/2010 04:10:31 AM 710 Views
Interesting beetnemesis - 20/02/2010 04:01:17 AM 709 Views
Keep in mind that France doesn't have remotely near as many fastfood restaurants as the US... Legolas - 19/02/2010 01:23:49 PM 905 Views
but what's wrong with eating halal meat? LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 01:33:17 PM 739 Views
Nothing per se, it's largely symbolic. I'm not sure how large the changes in the menu actually are. Legolas - 19/02/2010 01:42:54 PM 865 Views
Not a theologian, are we? Isaac - 19/02/2010 02:06:38 PM 826 Views
but is it the jews and observant christians complaining? LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 02:30:58 PM 676 Views
I've no clue Isaac - 19/02/2010 02:46:53 PM 860 Views
why would they be serving pork at a fast food anyways? LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 02:53:36 PM 660 Views
I checked the standard menu - other than one special burger with bacon, it's true there's no pork. *NM* Legolas - 19/02/2010 02:55:44 PM 336 Views
my point is how many fast food places have pork? LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 03:06:44 PM 655 Views
Well normally bacon is considered pork Isaac - 19/02/2010 03:07:45 PM 667 Views
Dude, it's France. They don't do English breakfasts. Legolas - 19/02/2010 03:19:48 PM 829 Views
American Breakfast, the english stole it from us Isaac - 19/02/2010 03:36:42 PM 762 Views
They put salt on their fries here, tons of it in fact... Legolas - 19/02/2010 03:48:06 PM 797 Views
Re: They put salt on their fries here, tons of it in fact... Isaac - 19/02/2010 04:16:22 PM 811 Views
Not a theologian, are we? snoopcester - 19/02/2010 02:31:17 PM 688 Views
from what we discussed in Meat Sciene LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 02:35:59 PM 740 Views
Oh? snoopcester - 19/02/2010 02:42:57 PM 753 Views
you could probably argue that it is less humane LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 02:54:32 PM 650 Views
Re: Not a theologian, are we? lyringlas - 19/02/2010 04:03:41 PM 904 Views
Re: Not a theologian, are we? Isaac - 19/02/2010 04:51:14 PM 806 Views
Re: Not a theologian, are we? lyringlas - 19/02/2010 04:54:26 PM 871 Views
Re: Not a theologian, are we? Isaac - 19/02/2010 05:03:28 PM 655 Views
Re: Not a theologian, are we? lyringlas - 19/02/2010 06:10:50 PM 670 Views
Upper tip Isaac - 19/02/2010 06:14:06 PM 612 Views
Re: but what's wrong with eating halal meat? Sareitha Sedai - 19/02/2010 02:33:14 PM 782 Views
+1 The Shrike - 19/02/2010 07:07:36 PM 676 Views
It is a MacDonalds not public service provider random thoughts - 19/02/2010 08:11:36 PM 669 Views
Oh, and then there's something else, though I don't know if it's a factor here... Legolas - 19/02/2010 02:41:46 PM 696 Views
Re: Keep in mind that France doesn't have remotely near as many fastfood restaurants as the US... snoopcester - 19/02/2010 01:57:15 PM 809 Views
That's what I was thinking too. Lupine - 19/02/2010 06:04:02 PM 830 Views
You think the reasons are as objective as that ? AgentOrange - 19/02/2010 02:24:36 PM 622 Views
I wouldn't exactly call the reasons I named "objective", myself. Legolas - 19/02/2010 02:37:56 PM 749 Views
Haha, yeah AgentOrange - 19/02/2010 07:24:00 PM 661 Views
Simply put : Many are afraid France is being taken over by the Muslims. AgentOrange - 19/02/2010 02:14:19 PM 775 Views
Re: Simply put : Many are afraid France is being taken over by the Muslims. lyringlas - 19/02/2010 05:02:18 PM 699 Views
Are you refering to something specific ? AgentOrange - 19/02/2010 07:18:38 PM 716 Views
Re: Are you refering to something specific ? lyringlas - 19/02/2010 07:21:35 PM 613 Views
In a sense that's what blocked the inclusion of Turkey into the EU. AgentOrange - 19/02/2010 07:26:51 PM 624 Views
Re: In a sense that's what blocked the inclusion of Turkey into the EU. lyringlas - 19/02/2010 07:30:33 PM 651 Views
The question there is what's pretext and what's actual reason. Legolas - 19/02/2010 08:53:44 PM 683 Views
Re: The question there is what's pretext and what's actual reason. lyringlas - 19/02/2010 08:55:53 PM 734 Views
Why are such politicians automatically "crazy" ßelals Girl - 19/02/2010 10:16:53 PM 780 Views
yep. *NM* AgentOrange - 20/02/2010 12:09:56 PM 324 Views
Really can't see why people would get so worked up random thoughts - 19/02/2010 03:57:37 PM 611 Views
No big deal.. Kel - 19/02/2010 04:16:08 PM 699 Views
i can't see why it matters that they did. i think it's great. *NM* temeraire - 19/02/2010 05:23:44 PM 388 Views
So, what is the difference between Halal Beef and normal beef? *NM* MightyYT - 19/02/2010 07:06:21 PM 316 Views
the way it is killed. *NM* jh - 19/02/2010 07:26:02 PM 410 Views
Call me an obvious bigot and prejudiced then. I think the way they did this is bad. The Shrike - 19/02/2010 07:10:40 PM 717 Views
Having two sources of meat would raise prices even more beetnemesis - 19/02/2010 07:56:21 PM 671 Views
Not to mention the fact that anything served as halal would have to be cooked separately Floffe - 19/02/2010 10:55:06 PM 635 Views
I wonder how teh Saudis or Iranians would react... Dragonsoul - 19/02/2010 08:51:11 PM 671 Views
most halal foods would always qualify as kosher, i believe. LadyLorraine - 20/02/2010 02:26:49 AM 613 Views
Nope. But it does work the other way around. *NM* AgentOrange - 20/02/2010 04:50:26 AM 333 Views
fair enough, then *NM* LadyLorraine - 20/02/2010 05:56:00 AM 482 Views
yupp, kosher counts as halal, halal is not kosher though *NM* Aisha - 20/02/2010 12:55:30 PM 435 Views
So let me get this straight... Dragonsoul - 20/02/2010 08:42:04 AM 803 Views
wow. first of all FRANCE is changing nothing LadyLorraine - 20/02/2010 06:28:27 PM 784 Views
I think you missed his point beckstcw - 20/02/2010 10:12:18 PM 673 Views
There are many answers one could give, but the most basic one is quite simple... Legolas - 20/02/2010 10:20:14 PM 796 Views
And yet having come of their own free will... Dragonsoul - 20/02/2010 11:11:51 PM 667 Views
Way to read half a post. I am impressed. jh - 21/02/2010 12:10:39 AM 670 Views
It always starts small. Dragonsoul - 21/02/2010 12:32:11 AM 642 Views
Awesome, you figured out their master plan!! LadyLorraine - 21/02/2010 02:06:27 AM 739 Views
Like I said... Dragonsoul - 21/02/2010 08:43:32 AM 694 Views
and really... in this case it's a private enterprise we're talking about AgentOrange - 21/02/2010 12:55:27 AM 642 Views
exactly. *NM* LadyLorraine - 21/02/2010 02:06:57 AM 445 Views
Oh I know, don't get me wrong. I was trying to clarify *NM* beckstcw - 21/02/2010 04:13:19 AM 362 Views
I didn't miss it, I just thought it wasn't worth noting. LadyLorraine - 21/02/2010 02:11:14 AM 898 Views
Re: wow. first of all FRANCE is changing nothing Dragonsoul - 20/02/2010 10:13:12 PM 844 Views
Yes, i'm sure there is no other restaurant in that whole area. LadyLorraine - 21/02/2010 02:04:29 AM 794 Views
that's not the point. Dragonsoul - 21/02/2010 08:46:14 AM 718 Views
dude. your 'THEY" did not do anything. LadyLorraine - 21/02/2010 03:01:48 PM 771 Views
So if your French every restaurant should only be allowed to serve what you want served? random thoughts - 22/02/2010 07:18:00 PM 667 Views
I don't think French society should be forced to consume Islamic food. Dragonsoul - 23/02/2010 01:31:03 AM 660 Views
No one is forcing anyone to do anything. LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 02:47:56 AM 717 Views
Sure they are. Dragonsoul - 23/02/2010 03:05:12 AM 694 Views
well they apparently still have 354 of that particular restaurant LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 03:20:07 AM 650 Views
Don't you get it? LiterateDog - 23/02/2010 03:51:09 AM 628 Views
Actually they're not ragheads. Dragonsoul - 23/02/2010 03:43:14 PM 639 Views
If you have a sarcasm meter, you might want to switch it on. *NM* LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 05:37:41 PM 310 Views
Indeed, 354 throughout the whole of France, which actually isn't that many. Dragonsoul - 23/02/2010 03:42:30 PM 676 Views
how many French people starved to death before McDonalds opened? random thoughts - 23/02/2010 04:30:32 PM 698 Views
Millions Isaac - 23/02/2010 04:41:23 PM 655 Views
Huh. Sareitha Sedai - 23/02/2010 06:10:17 PM 649 Views
They are not forced to do anything snoopcester - 23/02/2010 04:41:35 PM 633 Views
So Muslims should be forced to eat French food because the French are lazy to open more restaurants? random thoughts - 23/02/2010 04:43:13 AM 592 Views
well don't you see? LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 12:41:40 PM 697 Views
Re: well don't you see? ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 05:02:16 PM 634 Views
I agree with you. *NM* Rebekah - 23/02/2010 05:10:53 PM 302 Views
This is meant to be an edit... Rebekah - 23/02/2010 05:14:23 PM 700 Views
I agree, Bekah, but it's not like there's not a middle ground LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 05:25:30 PM 641 Views
It's the sheer numbers that are worrisome ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 06:25:17 PM 789 Views
That assumes a great deal LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 06:52:41 PM 761 Views
Re: That assumes a great deal ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 08:00:28 PM 792 Views
Very true. Test case: Lebanon AgentOrange - 24/02/2010 12:26:43 AM 641 Views
Really? snoopcester - 24/02/2010 10:02:18 AM 632 Views
What he's referring to... Legolas - 24/02/2010 10:20:22 AM 813 Views
Oh that, that I knew with the political system snoopcester - 24/02/2010 10:57:08 AM 632 Views
Re: This is meant to be an edit... ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 05:43:03 PM 849 Views
Well, biologically speaking, it is healthier for the gene pool. LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 06:55:11 PM 659 Views
"Propaganda"? Kind of exaggerating there... Legolas - 23/02/2010 07:48:39 PM 763 Views
How is it not propaganda? ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 08:31:12 PM 828 Views
I can certainly see your vitrol. Now I'm a bit confused though. LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 08:54:54 PM 674 Views
Re: I can certainly see your vitrol. Now I'm a bit confused though. ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 09:08:33 PM 1085 Views
your view point is idealistic, I think LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 09:24:08 PM 929 Views
I guess one would have to see the documentary to really judge. Legolas - 23/02/2010 08:58:47 PM 779 Views
The language really isn't the problem in France. Legolas - 23/02/2010 08:15:52 PM 789 Views
I will conceed that point ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 08:53:26 PM 775 Views
Oh yeah, definitely, re: your point about Americans *NM* Legolas - 23/02/2010 09:00:20 PM 319 Views
Our differing opinion does not make us wrong. or that you are. LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 09:07:38 PM 817 Views
I'm not dismissing the problem entirely. LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 09:03:50 PM 773 Views
Well. I wasn't necessarily specifying France. *NM* Rebekah - 23/02/2010 09:48:44 PM 315 Views
But a lot of them were already in a part of France or had been born in a part of France snoopcester - 23/02/2010 05:30:24 PM 666 Views
*gasp* There are no French Muslims!! LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 05:36:38 PM 788 Views
Or! snoopcester - 24/02/2010 10:04:44 AM 875 Views
It's funny because it's true - Algeria was administratively a part of France, iirc. *NM* Legolas - 23/02/2010 07:51:17 PM 272 Views
It does make the situation more complicated snoopcester - 24/02/2010 10:30:28 AM 704 Views
Why should you have to completely change who you are? LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 05:35:51 PM 642 Views
Yes, of course ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 05:48:10 PM 639 Views
Yes, but the difference was I knew it was hyperbole LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 07:01:49 PM 627 Views
Re: Yes, but the difference was I knew it was hyperbole ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 07:38:54 PM 777 Views
So they should be treated as less because they're immigrants? LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 07:45:16 PM 707 Views
They're not Turks, they're mostly from France's old colonies. Legolas - 23/02/2010 08:10:25 PM 635 Views
The French didn't seem to feel the need to go native when they were in Middle Eastern countries random thoughts - 23/02/2010 05:55:28 PM 883 Views
What are you refering to? ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 06:00:45 PM 667 Views
Brush up on your history then random thoughts - 23/02/2010 06:25:53 PM 695 Views
Thank you ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 06:34:19 PM 632 Views
I would think that simply having McDonalds there is a greater threat to French cultrue random thoughts - 23/02/2010 06:52:34 PM 762 Views
This. well stated. *NM* LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 07:03:47 PM 308 Views
Why thank you *NM* random thoughts - 23/02/2010 11:49:22 PM 302 Views
They had Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, and for a while Lebanon and Syria. Legolas - 23/02/2010 08:00:08 PM 852 Views
Many? Floffe - 23/02/2010 07:40:06 AM 699 Views
sorry I thought it was a restaurant random thoughts - 23/02/2010 04:41:39 AM 651 Views
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