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Re: Yeah, I think we've reached an understanding if not agreement. Isaac Send a noteboard - 01/03/2010 11:46:24 PM
That's ever been their problem, never mine. ;)


More or less my attitude on it too.

Well, it goes along with my basic thinking on the issue; if a guys snub nosed .38 falls out of his pants in front of a cop when he's on the way to a bank job, he can do a couple years in the state pen for that instead of robbing a bank. In an age when law enforcement frequently "asks" to search vehicles during routine traffic stops it's not an entirely hypothetical or even rarely applicable point. The one time I've denied permission to search, I was asked, "why?" and when I said it was because so many have bled and died for my right to say no that casually surrendering it would be spitting on their graves, I wound up standing by the road while a cop field tested one of my cigarette butts he was SURE was weed. So, yeah, I think laws against concealed weapons can do a lot to prevent more serious crimes, just as laws against felons having a firearm under any circumstances do.


Well, I salute you for saying 'no' on those grounds, though of course I can hardly blame the cops for taking a heightened interest, obviously field testing for a joint is excessive.

I would say, the counter to your comment in that context then isn't if someone drops their gun on the way to a robbery and gets arrested for it, but rather, from the police's eyes, an assumption someone just had a gun fall off their person is an indicator of criminal intent, this seems as flawed a reasoning as searching your car after be denied voluntary access. As a side note, slapping a ACLU bumper sticker or similar on your vehicle would probably reduce the odds of that re-occurring, as it becomes obvious your objection is based on general and not situational ethics.

I wouldn't want to guess if concealed weapons bans lower crime, minus that specific crime of course, but they may well do so, just as undoubtedly banning alcohol and drugs would lower the crime rate, not including those specific crimes, in none of these scenarios do I consider that concept a justification for a law. I'm pretty sure crime rates would drop if we put GPS monitors on to everyone too, I don't happen to favor the idea.

I'm gonna bypass the Iran-Contra references if you don't mind.

The government isn't obligated to bill you at cost, no, but if they don't you have real recourse, at least potentially. I've got a lot more beefs with Prudentials CEO than with Perry right now; guess which one I can vote out of office in March or November (I get TWO chances with Perry if I vote in the primary!)


I do happen to think it rather inappropriate to vote in primaries of a party you're not in, no real way to stop that sort of thing, but I would not vote in a democrat primary, and I would say ethically speaking, unless you would actually be willing to vote for that person in the general election, you should not vote for them in the primary. It's one thing when third-party types jump ship on their candidate to vote for the lesser of two evils, quite another when people go from a shoo-in primary to vote in the other side's contested primary election. Legally unpreventable but ethically undemocratic, IMHO, I did not participate in Rush's Operation Chaos in Ohio in '08 for that reason, and at the very least that was in direct response to all the mods and libs who voted in the GOP primary earlier to boost McCain. I understand tit-for-tat responses, but I would say this is not the case here, and even when it is it's not exactly a shining moment of ethical behavior.

There's no law that says just because the government offers a given service private companies can't, and that consumers are somehow magically prevented from taking a better private deal if one exists (this, by the way, is what keeps getting lost in the healthcare debate; every socialist country on earth has both public and private healthcare, but the difference is the former insures EVERYONE gets SOME minimum level of care. )


Catastrophic and minimum coverage is genuinely on the table and has been for some time, don't buy into leftist rhetoric they we aren't willing to compromise. Are major concern isn't the idea that there might be some minimum for everyone, but our legitimate fear that once established, the left will keep raising the bar using sob stories, and as you know, that will absolutely happen. It is not a secret that the left's ultimate goal on this is a socialist model, and the better part of a century's worth of New Deal gives us good reason to think giving any ground will just put us in a position where we have to fight off giving more ground each and every election cycle. A minimum universal coverage could only be espoused were genuine super-majorities needed to later increase it, essentially, an amendment defining healthcare to a certain level as a right.

I don't have a problem with people paying more to drive on a government maintained but privately owned road if they so desire; I just don't want to be forced to do so.


Well, these things tend to be case-by-case, I would say when you can show that people are benefiting disproportionately from a road compared to average citizens using the rest of the highway system, a toll to make up that difference is legit. Then you have the normal 'why can't I cross the freeway' issues from a limited number overpasses, loose rule of thumb, I'd say if any distance of under five miles as the crow flies requires ten plus miles of driving to avoid tolls, you've got an issue, anything 5-20 miles being more than double you've got a problem, and anything adding more than 50% to travel time for longer distances, problem. If it's inside that zone, then practicality trumps, otherwise, no, it's unduly restrictive. Exceptions to that can be dealt with locally, getting the city to cough up money for an overpass if it seems appropriate, etc.

Fair enough; I honestly don't know the mans resume myself, but if he had better legal options in government I'm sure he would've taken them.


Probably.

*shrugs* They weren't talking about A HPV vaccine, but specifically about Gardasil (I believe there is one competing vaccine, but contracts being contracts, it was the only one they were going to administer here. ) They didn't need tort reform, just a private hotline to the Governor. Though that's a great way in itself to get tort reform. ;)


Very true, but the tort refeorm reference is that most Pharm companies avoid vaccine R&D and often don't even bother marketing a vaccine already developed for fear of class-action lawsuits. This is a case where you can go the opposite direction too, reform doesn't have to limit awards just strictly limit grounds for suits. I think, morally speaking, if Merck develops a AIDS vaccine, and everyone takes it, then 20 years from now 1 in 100 fall over dead, I don't think there a grounds for a suit there, there needs to be proof of outright negligence or deliberate monkeying with test data to warrant lawsuits on a lot of these things, and I'm not sure juries are really in a position to decide that, the problem of civil versus criminal cases, you really have no system of junking BS cases in advance, no grand jury, no prosecutor who can be held responsible for trying utter nonsense cases, etc.

Heh, I suppose so; that's actually not a bad counterexample of why "leave it up to mom and dad" isn't exactly a panacea, though it doesn't seem any lasting harm was done in your case. :P I'm not unsympathetic to the critics position; I think it incumbent on parents to do at least as good a job teaching kids about sex as schools, or at least inform them as much as they're able, but even among we who are sympathetic there's a certain perplexity at people who decry welfare for single mothers of eight AND decry comprehensive sex ed. And make no mistake: I'm a veteran of that debate on wotmanias CMB, and used to taking fire from both sides for my position sex ed SHOULD be comprehensive, meaning kids are taught


I've always believed you're better off teaching to understanding, not fear, when possible, so a lot of times I object to public ed on things like this because it uses fear, not real science and medicine, as it's grounds, kids figure this out, and they toss the bay out with the bathwater.

1) The only 100% effective way of avoiding pregnancy and most STDs is abstinence,

2) If you INSIST on sex many birth control measures are available, of variable efficacy against STDs,

3) There's a right and wrong way to use each of them and

4) None of them has the success rate of abstinence.

It's the right way to teach the subject in schools, IMHO; it's also an equal opportunity offender, offering something for both the "sex, drugs and rock 'n roll111" crowd and the "my kids will never have sex unless someone tells them about it" groups to hate.


Yet, while I agree with this, it has a certain element of fear-mongering to it. Children need to know what the real risks are, statistically, otherwise all those foolish excuses make more sense. We need to instill a clean 'risk management' attitude into kids, then this, and many other things, disappear. Not 'STDs will get you if you have sex' but 'some actions have a much higher chance of having bad results, these should be avoided' because you get this mental barrier from fear that once broken is totally broken in most cases. Drugs are bad turns into 'drugs are fine, now I've smoked some weed I know what a lie this is' whereas an approach of 'Everytime I do one of these I have a cumulative chance of addiction' that while a bit less likely to prevent trying stuff I think wards off more of the real fear, massive quantities of addicts. Teaching on a false premise, that any of us really mind a kid trying a beer when they're 17, leaves fake milestones in the mind, kids see it's illogical, and have personal motives to look for an excuse to do it, they now have the legit grounds to say 'It is stupid to assume there are any greater consequences of me drinking a beer at 19 then at 22, physiologically' and none will be inclined to accept the emotional maturity concept since they regularly falsely rate themselves as more mature than the 'average'. Fear works where realistically true teaching is impossible - trying to explain to a ten year old why stopping at an intersection even when they can see there is no traffic - but is useless when consequence is removed. A teenager knows they will not be thrown into jail for years for smoking weed. As the tool is useless, your best bet is to logically explain the reasoning as you would to an adult, and hope for the best, instead of encouraging rebellious behavior by using logically flawed fear-based reasoning.

Likely so; the days when people brought popcorn to watch the back and forth are likely behind us, at least for now.


Well, frankly I enjoy our conversations in the void more because nobody is popping in every other post to insert their political talking points. I get a little exhausted having to rebut or cringe at support from people whose knowledge on a lot of issues feels like I've read the book and they read the cliff notes, or often just the dusk jacket, and now approach everything on the subject with a certain ideological blindness acquired after five minutes of actual study. Conversation that tends to be black and white where the other participant has an a prior assumption on it to begin with.

Why? This is still a democracy, or at least a constitutional republic, right? Even in a republic, if we legislate it we're still talking about what the public as a whole thinks fair; why make it the always awful one size fits all solution instead of letting them decide on a case by case basis of merit? At least a jury will have all the legal and particular facts if the plaintiffs attorney does his job (you can bet the firm on retainer will do theirs. )


Well, it's invariable a tricky area, it's easy to say 'Roof damage, the bill is for 30k, guess what, we're awarding you 30k and some additional expenses, or we're treating it as depreciated since your roof was twenty years old already and you'd have had to buy a new one soon' hard to do that for lost limbs, pain and suffering, etc. At the very least, I'd like established guidelines that were given to the jury and the judge informing them that the to exceed those, the defense has to make the case that it's an exceptional circumstance. I don't believe that could be said to violate the seventh amendment.

The right tends to be a lot more monolithic, in my experience, though, no, not absolutely so. Typically when I see calls for "change" from the right it's "change BACK" and repeal reforms that were instituted for very real and grave reasons. Thus my old quip that Republicans too often want to "reform" a flawed government program the way vets "treat" horses with broken legs. Throwing out the baby with the bathwater may keep your tub clean, but it's not worth the cost.


It's a belief that complex systems tend to develop their own inertia, and that patches are fine but at a certain point you scrap it and redo base don what you know from experience. Bill X v1.1 is fine, Bill X, v 7.5 means write a whole new system, sunset the old one. We could do a much better job on Welfare, for instance, if we simply rewrote it from the ground up now that we have decades of experience with it.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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Palin reads Cheat Notes. - 08/02/2010 12:43:02 AM 1426 Views
Is it really worse than reading answers on a teleprompter? sorry, I see no big deal here. *NM* - 08/02/2010 01:02:49 AM 252 Views
yes yes it is. a teleprompter is subtle - 08/02/2010 01:22:17 AM 595 Views
a teleprompter is not subtle - 08/02/2010 02:25:46 PM 523 Views
staring openly and blatantly at your hand is? *NM* - 08/02/2010 03:09:25 PM 323 Views
I think if anyone else had done the dame thing we wouldn't even had heard about - 08/02/2010 06:13:44 PM 526 Views
you're right, we probably would not have heard about it - 08/02/2010 07:56:09 PM 565 Views
Yes for what the notes were - 08/02/2010 12:44:35 PM 559 Views
no biggie *NM* - 08/02/2010 02:00:12 AM 272 Views
Isn't her 15 minutes over yet? *NM* - 08/02/2010 02:45:58 AM 357 Views
This only obscures the rational reasons for duly decrying her political popularity. Moooooooo. *NM* - 08/02/2010 03:19:45 AM 326 Views
I disagree, I think it underscores it. - 08/02/2010 03:39:57 AM 527 Views
Or they might believe that a far left liberal - 08/02/2010 04:16:51 AM 544 Views
Calling someone who needs a cheat sheet for their talking points stupid isn't an ad hominem, IMHO. - 08/02/2010 12:13:36 PM 539 Views
soory but your wrong, again - 08/02/2010 02:23:31 PM 498 Views
You shouldn't need reminders of your major themes after two years pushing them. - 08/02/2010 02:55:22 PM 530 Views
That's a bit silly - 08/02/2010 08:40:25 PM 692 Views
I'm perfectly happy to discuss her positions; I just think Huckabee does a better job of it. - 09/02/2010 10:26:54 AM 712 Views
Well, let's discuss some of these points - 09/02/2010 07:13:33 PM 718 Views
Re: Well, let's discuss some of these points - 10/02/2010 09:15:04 AM 750 Views
Re: Well, let's discuss some of these points - 10/02/2010 06:49:51 PM 816 Views
Ironically, Palin seems to agree this is different than using a teleprompter for a speech. - 11/02/2010 09:05:19 AM 711 Views
Again, two seperate things - 11/02/2010 09:51:15 PM 526 Views
Agreed, but Palin and other Republicans, not I, drew the comparison. - 15/02/2010 01:02:25 PM 675 Views
Just to get the obligatory Feinstein comment out of the way... - 15/02/2010 11:43:42 PM 737 Views
Hadn't heard, actually. - 19/02/2010 06:58:50 AM 653 Views
Re: Hadn't heard, actually. - 19/02/2010 08:32:11 AM 650 Views
Ah. - 23/02/2010 09:55:45 PM 727 Views
Re: Ah. - 24/02/2010 01:32:34 AM 674 Views
Yeah, I think we've reached an understanding if not agreement. - 01/03/2010 03:51:49 AM 669 Views
Re: Yeah, I think we've reached an understanding if not agreement. - 01/03/2010 11:46:24 PM 883 Views
Re: Yeah, I think we've reached an understanding if not agreement. - 05/03/2010 12:11:48 AM 754 Views
Random Title - 05/03/2010 02:49:59 AM 685 Views
Re: Random Title - 15/03/2010 05:37:22 AM 601 Views
Re: Random Title - 15/03/2010 09:17:53 PM 915 Views
Re: Random Rejoinder - 29/03/2010 03:45:08 PM 638 Views
Re: Random Rejoinder - 30/03/2010 12:34:23 AM 1285 Views
Oh dear, who ever let you two get into a subthread together? - 15/03/2010 10:31:24 PM 746 Views
Ben was asleep at the switch, clearly. - 29/03/2010 02:48:46 PM 683 Views
oh yes, and the right never uses ad hominem - 08/02/2010 03:56:42 PM 493 Views
This is petty and also rather ignorant - 08/02/2010 03:59:40 AM 690 Views
There had to be better ways, though - 08/02/2010 08:36:50 AM 447 Views
so you're saying you're as dumb as sarah palin? - 08/02/2010 10:55:00 AM 504 Views
Basically yes - 08/02/2010 06:57:16 PM 560 Views
a couple of points... - 09/02/2010 01:53:29 AM 525 Views
Let me get this straight. - 08/02/2010 03:59:40 AM 604 Views
Okay, folks, it's not that she had a cheat sheet. - 08/02/2010 04:39:06 AM 560 Views
Style is EVERYTHING, dammit! *NM* - 08/02/2010 05:34:14 AM 284 Views
As Cheat Sheet was raised as an objection, so it clearly was - 08/02/2010 06:16:57 AM 662 Views
It's completely unprofessional - 08/02/2010 08:27:47 AM 522 Views
why? - 08/02/2010 02:29:44 PM 544 Views
well it's all she's got going for her. *NM* - 08/02/2010 03:10:37 PM 234 Views
You know that's a good question - 08/02/2010 05:19:10 PM 509 Views
maybe you are just projecting - 08/02/2010 06:15:57 PM 514 Views
well what is the association we have with notes on hands? - 08/02/2010 07:58:41 PM 536 Views
or people on the far left are being grossly disingenuous - 08/02/2010 08:18:06 PM 652 Views
dude, only posted it because it was funny - 08/02/2010 08:43:55 PM 508 Views
I agree on your title - 09/02/2010 11:30:11 AM 575 Views
Who cares? She's hot. *NM* - 08/02/2010 03:06:58 PM 247 Views
I agree with your first sentence. *NM* - 08/02/2010 03:07:31 PM 348 Views
I also totally agree with that first sentence. *NM* - 08/02/2010 03:48:24 PM 274 Views
Much ado about nothing. She was just making sure she didn't forget anything. - 09/02/2010 02:00:56 AM 487 Views
No, humble would have been note cards. *NM* - 09/02/2010 05:55:27 AM 252 Views
Nah, note cards can be dropped or lost. - 09/02/2010 03:03:25 PM 510 Views
She's such a retard. *NM* - 09/02/2010 02:46:51 AM 276 Views
Maybe - 09/02/2010 09:29:45 AM 547 Views
No offense, girlie. - 09/02/2010 11:36:55 AM 652 Views
She should have left herself a note... - 09/02/2010 11:04:34 PM 516 Views

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