Re: Homeschooling: German Family Gets Political Asylum in U.S.
everynametaken Send a noteboard - 03/03/2010 01:09:23 AM
One of the Romeikes' concerns was about their kids getting bullied. But their main objection involved what was being taught in the classroom. "The curriculum goes against our Christian values," Uwe says. "German schools use textbooks that force inappropriate subject matter onto young children and tell stories with characters that promote profanity and disrespect."
Bullied? I'm calling bullshit on that one. Whatever, everyone eventually encounters a bully in life whether in school or in adult life in the work force or with authorities. The bullying part is a pretty lame excuse. I'd also like to know what they consider so profane and disrespectful in German textbooks. I could make guesses but that is all they would be since the article doesn't specify.
Regardless of how lame I think their excuses might sound they should still have the right to turn their kids in to socially defunct persons if they wish.
In 2007, Germany's Federal Supreme Court issued a ruling - which did not specifically involve the Romeikes - that parents could lose custody of their children if they continued to homeschool them. "We were under constant pressure, and we were scared the German authorities would take our children away," Romeike says. "So we decided to leave and go to the U.S."
German officials, for their part, note that the Romeikes had other options. "If parents don't want to send their children to a public school, they can send them to alternative private schools," says Thomas Hilsenbeck, a spokesman for the Baden-Württemberg education ministry. Homeschooling advocates counter that there are few private schools in Germany, and they tend to be expensive. But beyond that, many religious parents have problems with sex education and other curricular requirements. "Whether it's a state school or a private school, there's still a curriculum that is forced onto children," says Kuhnle.
Well no shit Sherlock that there's still a curriculum forced on them in private schools. I hope they did their homework before trying to homeschool their kids here where there is still certain criteria they must be tested on and pass. I hope they don;t think they can just keep their kids home and isolated and teach them whatever they want. That isn;t how homeschooling works here.
And then there are the social aspects of going to school. Homeschooling parents tend to want to shield their children from negative influences. But this quest often runs counter to the idea that schools represent society and help promote tolerance. "No parental couple can offer a breadth of education [that can] replace experienced teachers," says Kraus, of the German Teachers' Association. "Kids also lose contact with their peers."
First of all, I am going to have to agree with Cannoli on this one.
2' />
Quoting a teacher in this instance is asinine. No motivation there to portray the parents decision negatively, no siree. Even though I think his point is valid, homeschooled kids are less socially adept (at least anecdotally in my experiences with them and the experiences of everyone I know with homeschoolers), parents should still have the ultimate choice to make them so as long as they receive an education on core topics via homeschooling.
Concerns that homeschooling could lead to insularity - or worse, as Kraus puts it, "could help foster the development of a sect" - are shaping policy debates in European countries. In Britain, for example, Parliament is considering legislation that would create a new monitoring system to ensure that homeschooled kids get a suitable education.
A sect? LMAO! Seriously, that is just lame. As far as Britain developing a monitoring system goes, good for them. I wish America monitored homeschooled kids better. From what people who homeschool have told me it is quite easy to cheat. The American system (which I believe is regulated state by state - correct me if I am wrong) could use some real reform.
Bullied? I'm calling bullshit on that one. Whatever, everyone eventually encounters a bully in life whether in school or in adult life in the work force or with authorities. The bullying part is a pretty lame excuse. I'd also like to know what they consider so profane and disrespectful in German textbooks. I could make guesses but that is all they would be since the article doesn't specify.
Regardless of how lame I think their excuses might sound they should still have the right to turn their kids in to socially defunct persons if they wish.
In 2007, Germany's Federal Supreme Court issued a ruling - which did not specifically involve the Romeikes - that parents could lose custody of their children if they continued to homeschool them. "We were under constant pressure, and we were scared the German authorities would take our children away," Romeike says. "So we decided to leave and go to the U.S."
German officials, for their part, note that the Romeikes had other options. "If parents don't want to send their children to a public school, they can send them to alternative private schools," says Thomas Hilsenbeck, a spokesman for the Baden-Württemberg education ministry. Homeschooling advocates counter that there are few private schools in Germany, and they tend to be expensive. But beyond that, many religious parents have problems with sex education and other curricular requirements. "Whether it's a state school or a private school, there's still a curriculum that is forced onto children," says Kuhnle.
Well no shit Sherlock that there's still a curriculum forced on them in private schools. I hope they did their homework before trying to homeschool their kids here where there is still certain criteria they must be tested on and pass. I hope they don;t think they can just keep their kids home and isolated and teach them whatever they want. That isn;t how homeschooling works here.
And then there are the social aspects of going to school. Homeschooling parents tend to want to shield their children from negative influences. But this quest often runs counter to the idea that schools represent society and help promote tolerance. "No parental couple can offer a breadth of education [that can] replace experienced teachers," says Kraus, of the German Teachers' Association. "Kids also lose contact with their peers."
First of all, I am going to have to agree with Cannoli on this one.

Quoting a teacher in this instance is asinine. No motivation there to portray the parents decision negatively, no siree. Even though I think his point is valid, homeschooled kids are less socially adept (at least anecdotally in my experiences with them and the experiences of everyone I know with homeschoolers), parents should still have the ultimate choice to make them so as long as they receive an education on core topics via homeschooling.
Concerns that homeschooling could lead to insularity - or worse, as Kraus puts it, "could help foster the development of a sect" - are shaping policy debates in European countries. In Britain, for example, Parliament is considering legislation that would create a new monitoring system to ensure that homeschooled kids get a suitable education.
A sect? LMAO! Seriously, that is just lame. As far as Britain developing a monitoring system goes, good for them. I wish America monitored homeschooled kids better. From what people who homeschool have told me it is quite easy to cheat. The American system (which I believe is regulated state by state - correct me if I am wrong) could use some real reform.
But wine was the great assassin of both tradition and propriety...
-Brandon Sanderson, The Way of Kings
-Brandon Sanderson, The Way of Kings
Homeschooling: German Family Gets Political Asylum in U.S.
02/03/2010 10:30:01 PM
- 1481 Views
Looks like a win-win situation to me.
02/03/2010 11:01:22 PM
- 760 Views
Germany does have a history of getting rid of people it doesn't like *NM*
03/03/2010 02:08:37 PM
- 471 Views
Yawn. At least beckstcw was joking when he invoked Godwin's law below. I hope. *NM*
03/03/2010 02:10:18 PM
- 388 Views
That is a load of crap
03/03/2010 02:53:02 PM
- 470 Views
uhm, how would Germany be offending the US?
03/03/2010 02:56:52 PM
- 433 Views
Um.
03/03/2010 02:57:53 PM
- 315 Views
But our religious beliefs and belief in allowing religious freedom is fair game?
03/03/2010 03:09:48 PM
- 325 Views
Yes?
03/03/2010 03:40:30 PM
- 303 Views
If you made fun of the Native Americans I would be offended
03/03/2010 03:46:05 PM
- 546 Views
It's actually quite the opposite.
03/03/2010 03:57:19 PM
- 522 Views
and I would say they trying to fix intolerance with more intolerance
03/03/2010 04:13:49 PM
- 308 Views
That was probably the stupidest thing I ever saw you write
03/03/2010 03:28:39 PM
- 478 Views
You were the one who said good riddance
03/03/2010 03:43:24 PM
- 332 Views
It's the usual story of American ideology and European pragmatism.
03/03/2010 03:52:51 PM
- 493 Views
This is getting a bit off the discussion. Please keep it civil, everyone. *NM*
03/03/2010 06:55:11 PM
- 409 Views
Re: Homeschooling: German Family Gets Political Asylum in U.S.
03/03/2010 01:09:23 AM
- 897 Views
The socialization thing is mostly garbage
03/03/2010 02:32:19 AM
- 767 Views
Yep, exactly.
03/03/2010 02:41:14 AM
- 560 Views
Re: Yep, exactly.
03/03/2010 03:12:48 AM
- 538 Views
*shrugs* I said it was anecdotal. I have no hard figures, only experiences.
03/03/2010 03:28:29 AM
- 534 Views
The operative word IS mostly
03/03/2010 04:33:20 AM
- 730 Views
'Mostly' is all that matters
03/03/2010 05:46:01 AM
- 771 Views
Uhm, socialization is incredibly important.
03/03/2010 06:03:30 AM
- 740 Views
Yes, but you don't need to be taught to do it
03/03/2010 06:47:06 AM
- 690 Views
cats aren't pack or herd animals
03/03/2010 06:53:02 AM
- 677 Views

Something of an inside joke, sorry
03/03/2010 07:41:50 AM
- 722 Views
us closely associated with schools are sensitive on the issue too
03/03/2010 01:05:27 PM
- 534 Views

Re: us closely associated with schools are sensitive on the issue too
03/03/2010 10:19:21 PM
- 604 Views

I would agree that households with two working parnets shouldn't home school *NM*
03/03/2010 03:22:51 PM
- 389 Views
to jump on the "I was homeschooled and I have social skills" bandwagon...
03/03/2010 06:27:05 AM
- 1092 Views
I was homeschooled through grade 12, and my mom has done pro bono legal work for HSLDA.
03/03/2010 02:20:38 AM
- 680 Views
I agree that it can be a very good option for some families
03/03/2010 04:42:21 AM
- 814 Views
Re: I agree that it can be a very good option for some families
03/03/2010 05:16:17 AM
- 651 Views
It depends on the public school.
03/03/2010 05:23:09 AM
- 686 Views
Re: It depends on the public school.
03/03/2010 05:45:07 AM
- 687 Views
"done right" is not always the case
03/03/2010 05:58:26 AM
- 519 Views
Re: "done right" is not always the case
03/03/2010 06:14:43 AM
- 837 Views
Re: "done right" is not always the case
03/03/2010 06:31:04 AM
- 747 Views
Well let's talk stats then.
03/03/2010 06:55:14 AM
- 708 Views
please do not get me started on statistis.
03/03/2010 07:11:19 AM
- 626 Views
Your comments on public school educations have rather limited relevance to other countries, though.
03/03/2010 09:53:30 AM
- 760 Views
While I support homeschooling, this is ridiculous.
03/03/2010 04:48:40 AM
- 814 Views
Meh.
03/03/2010 05:20:50 AM
- 740 Views
one year in a public school
03/03/2010 05:32:13 AM
- 791 Views
Re: one year in a public school
03/03/2010 05:58:48 AM
- 562 Views
No, I think i will nitpick.
03/03/2010 06:11:44 AM
- 692 Views
This is getting off track and wasting time.
03/03/2010 06:26:36 AM
- 728 Views
I'm not even certain it's 100% legal.
03/03/2010 06:34:44 AM
- 513 Views
Yes, but we can't argue abuse of law.
03/03/2010 06:51:23 AM
- 625 Views
I only used Mexicans because I'm from Arizona
03/03/2010 07:04:29 AM
- 751 Views

I think I have the gist of it,
03/03/2010 07:17:40 AM
- 645 Views
we haven't heard anything about their beliefs for me to think they're stupid.
03/03/2010 02:54:25 PM
- 734 Views
According to the Süddeutsche Zeitung...
03/03/2010 03:38:13 PM
- 655 Views
Say what?
03/03/2010 09:38:40 AM
- 602 Views
Being able raise your kids by your beliefs is a frivolous matter?
03/03/2010 03:21:23 PM
- 537 Views
Germany is not saying "you can't raise your kids by your beliefs"
03/03/2010 03:31:01 PM
- 663 Views
It's not a recent law, and supposedly other German families have moved to France and the UK.
03/03/2010 03:45:56 PM
- 751 Views
I think that would fly in very face of political assylum
03/03/2010 04:12:48 PM
- 703 Views
Yes, but they did not need political asylum.
03/03/2010 04:28:16 PM
- 717 Views
how is that different then other political refuges we allow in?
03/03/2010 04:55:14 PM
- 630 Views
I believe Legolas linked an article
03/03/2010 04:57:09 PM
- 611 Views
I never saw the link
03/03/2010 05:08:21 PM
- 524 Views
I'm not sure if they offered "formal" assurances or some such
03/03/2010 05:21:54 PM
- 447 Views
that was a mayor, I doubt he would have the final word on the issue
03/03/2010 05:46:22 PM
- 503 Views
You don't have a law about removing children from parental custody? At all?
03/03/2010 09:43:15 PM
- 649 Views
They can take your kids from for not sending them to school but not for home schooling them
03/03/2010 10:35:48 PM
- 657 Views
Compared to not being able to feed your kids, yes, it is.
03/03/2010 03:42:58 PM
- 534 Views
yes but we don't grant political assylum for being hungry
03/03/2010 04:34:23 PM
- 620 Views
no we don't.
03/03/2010 04:50:31 PM
- 493 Views
Do you have a better system?
03/03/2010 05:05:42 PM
- 783 Views
Immigration processes could certainly use some reform
03/03/2010 05:32:22 PM
- 584 Views
The system sucks, big government typically does not function well
03/03/2010 05:48:25 PM
- 521 Views
Oh, and did you miss the part where the federal government is appealing the decision? *NM*
03/03/2010 09:40:42 AM
- 394 Views
I would consider the threat of losing my children because of my beliefs to be a real threat *NM*
03/03/2010 02:54:08 PM
- 433 Views
Doesn't matter why, but all parents should have the right to homeschool.....
03/03/2010 04:48:57 AM
- 562 Views
That whole thing is pretty silly
03/03/2010 12:18:45 PM
- 794 Views
Re: socialising.
03/03/2010 06:13:49 PM
- 757 Views
I am opposed to homeschooling but believe it should be a legal option.
03/03/2010 02:32:34 PM
- 706 Views
I think you make a good point here
03/03/2010 05:22:59 PM
- 744 Views
but...but...parents can't educate their children outside of school!!
03/03/2010 05:40:30 PM
- 671 Views
I don't agree with them I just support their right to be wrong
03/03/2010 06:04:11 PM
- 718 Views
The statistics are flawed, as I've noted above
03/03/2010 07:07:11 PM
- 582 Views
they tend to beat private schools as well would should flatten out the demographics
03/03/2010 07:53:38 PM
- 671 Views
Your views on this are not fact-driven
03/03/2010 09:13:07 PM
- 760 Views
No, what you're saying is that my answer isn't driven by STATISTICS.
03/03/2010 10:36:50 PM
- 685 Views
Granted, but there is no obvious source for bias
03/03/2010 10:57:19 PM
- 616 Views
You mean aside from the fact that you are already arguing about it?
04/03/2010 12:14:02 AM
- 522 Views
Yes, I mentioned this in my reply to Tom, see below...
04/03/2010 12:19:42 AM
- 657 Views
And the wikipedia article you pointed me to had a different study that contradicts your point.
03/03/2010 10:42:54 PM
- 626 Views
Religious or *moral* instruction
03/03/2010 10:49:48 PM
- 710 Views
I haven't really "met" you the way I meant it in that reply
03/03/2010 11:48:11 PM
- 510 Views
Granted but for our purposes I think people on this site would qualify
04/03/2010 12:05:03 AM
- 675 Views
Umm Massachusetts did have slavery in 1717
03/03/2010 02:55:25 PM
- 622 Views
His argument on the law of Germany is a bad one generally, though, not just for that reason.
03/03/2010 03:31:00 PM
- 538 Views
Wow....so this got the board going. A question for everyone...
03/03/2010 06:02:57 PM
- 806 Views
I think it is incumbent on the state to show that kids are being in some way harmed
03/03/2010 06:07:13 PM
- 723 Views
Interesting
03/03/2010 06:25:43 PM
- 826 Views
I never said there should be no limits on what parents should be able to do
03/03/2010 06:38:53 PM
- 776 Views
I think it's safe to say teaching your kids to be little sociopaths qualifies as harm.
03/03/2010 09:17:48 PM
- 544 Views
I think so too
03/03/2010 10:46:41 PM
- 774 Views
I think the problem there was it was seen as inherently political, that, and showing harm.
03/03/2010 11:44:21 PM
- 599 Views
Yes they do. Provided...
03/03/2010 07:04:46 PM
- 646 Views
There is a reason why education until 18 (or 16, depending) is not merely a right, but a duty.
03/03/2010 10:00:53 PM
- 712 Views
Hmmph. Inappropriate action on the part of the judge who allowed them to stay.
03/03/2010 06:22:08 PM
- 668 Views
You just skip the part where they have to show they are being persecuted
03/03/2010 06:54:20 PM
- 792 Views
As I said, most people would prefer to have their safety threatened to losing their kids. *NM*
06/03/2010 10:14:52 PM
- 458 Views
*walks in, looks around*
03/03/2010 07:52:09 PM
- 741 Views
Interesting
03/03/2010 11:02:27 PM
- 742 Views