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Re: "done right" is not always the case LadyLorraine Send a noteboard - 03/03/2010 06:31:04 AM
anything "done right" is lovely. An in-school education "done right" is perfectly sufficient for the needs of most students.

Well, we're hung up on semantics, here. I'm really thinking more of the averages. When I say "done right" I mean "not the sort of homeschool parents the news channels love to show."

After all, as you said, most student don't really have the drive to learn more than necessary. Do you think putting them in an at-home individual setting will suddenly make them want to learn geometry? or make history more interesting to a kid who only wants to dig worms out of the soil? Yes, you do have more ability to focus on what the student is good at, but you still have to teach the "boring stuff".

No, you really don't. Or at least, homeschool can minimize boring stuff in a way that public school cannot. Like I said in another thread, I never took any formal spelling or grammar instruction. I had VERY little history. You really don't have to teach "the boring stuff." Consequently, homeschool students absolutely can be more motivated than traditional students. Most that I've known are. It's not just the subject choice, either. Parents are naturally good at motivating their kids. They know them best, after all. They know that asking the kid to write a five page report won't be as effective as having them watch an animated lecture online (or whatever).


That is based on your personal experiences. I've seen home schooling go very differently. I've seen a kid throw math books around a living room because she didn't want to do homework, and her mother not do a whit about it. So my personal experiences paint a very different picture for me. On the other hand, during the summers I was "home schooled" to a degree by my mother and I found that at least interesting, even if I hated those danged math books :P (PS the child in the aforementioned throwing was not me ;) ) But the point here is, those experiences are very different. As a system, there is not consistency in quality in home schooling

Parents can motivate children by tailoring subjects, AND by tailoring their teaching style to methods that the student responds well to.


Unless the parent is an idiot or can't teach worth a hoot. Obviously, your parents were neither, but you assume that all parents can accomplish these tasks. Parents can sometimes hardly managed to motivate their children to wake up in the morning. You really think that same parent will manage to motivate a child to practice their multiplication tables? What about the parents who's children wail in grocery stores?

A teacher can't either. As for the school's resources, it's basically a library, and some teachers. The teachers rarely know much more than their subject matter requires, and develop lesson plans by reading the textbook, and coming up with an outline. Parents can do the same thing. They can pick textbooks based on solid peer reviews and awards, too, rather than just going with whatever the school can pick up cheap. Up to a point, parents already know the majority of what they're teaching their kid, too. That point is usually high school, and most home-schooling parents do "outsource" a lot of the schooling. In high school, I took some community college courses, and some courses at a local co-op group, which brought in parents from their field to teach, to supplement what I did at home. At the high school level, you do lose some of the benefit of having a parent teach you, but you still have all the flexibility to tailor towards what interests you, and to learn in the manner you see fit, whether that be community college classes, job shadowing, whatever.


A single teacher cannot answer every child's question, no. But there is always more than one teacher just a few foot steps away. The library is only a few more steps than that. My point is that all these resources are within easy access to a student willing to access them, or a teacher willing to do a bit extra for a student. And I don't know how much you know about teaching (honestly, I'm not trying to egg at you), but I can assure you that plenty of teachers do more than formulate an outline from a textbook for their curriculum. Trust me, I've seen more lesson plan books than anyone outside a college of education should. I've had more of that since entering college than anywhere else.

A quality home school education require a parent to give a quality education. This is far from impossible, but there are enough parents out there that are total idiots both with knowledge and their children that I would quake in fear if home schooling was made the predominant system of education over in-school teaching.
Still Empress of the Poofy Purple Pillow Pile Palace!!
Continued Love of my Aussie <3
This message last edited by LadyLorraine on 03/03/2010 at 06:45:11 AM
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Homeschooling: German Family Gets Political Asylum in U.S. Cannoli - 02/03/2010 10:30:01 PM 1620 Views
Looks like a win-win situation to me. Legolas - 02/03/2010 11:01:22 PM 864 Views
Exactly ironclad - 03/03/2010 08:54:10 AM 824 Views
yah...but...but.... LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 01:13:31 PM 744 Views
Germany does have a history of getting rid of people it doesn't like *NM* random thoughts - 03/03/2010 02:08:37 PM 518 Views
Yawn. At least beckstcw was joking when he invoked Godwin's law below. I hope. *NM* Legolas - 03/03/2010 02:10:18 PM 437 Views
That is a load of crap random thoughts - 03/03/2010 02:53:02 PM 520 Views
uhm, how would Germany be offending the US? LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 02:56:52 PM 489 Views
I meant in general not in this specfic case random thoughts - 03/03/2010 02:59:01 PM 427 Views
ahh mk *NM* LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 03:09:39 PM 466 Views
Um. Legolas - 03/03/2010 02:57:53 PM 365 Views
But our religious beliefs and belief in allowing religious freedom is fair game? random thoughts - 03/03/2010 03:09:48 PM 371 Views
Yes? Legolas - 03/03/2010 03:40:30 PM 347 Views
If you made fun of the Native Americans I would be offended random thoughts - 03/03/2010 03:46:05 PM 598 Views
It's actually quite the opposite. Legolas - 03/03/2010 03:57:19 PM 574 Views
and I would say they trying to fix intolerance with more intolerance random thoughts - 03/03/2010 04:13:49 PM 358 Views
That was probably the stupidest thing I ever saw you write ironclad - 03/03/2010 03:28:39 PM 530 Views
You were the one who said good riddance random thoughts - 03/03/2010 03:43:24 PM 378 Views
It's the usual story of American ideology and European pragmatism. Legolas - 03/03/2010 03:52:51 PM 537 Views
exactly. LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 03:56:11 PM 486 Views
Yes, because I won't miss them much. ironclad - 03/03/2010 03:55:29 PM 571 Views
well said Aisha - 03/03/2010 06:34:18 PM 565 Views
This is getting a bit off the discussion. Please keep it civil, everyone. *NM* Avendesora - 03/03/2010 06:55:11 PM 458 Views
I think it's outrageous they'd fine people for that Isaac - 02/03/2010 11:07:57 PM 888 Views
Re: Homeschooling: German Family Gets Political Asylum in U.S. everynametaken - 03/03/2010 01:09:23 AM 1016 Views
The socialization thing is mostly garbage Isaac - 03/03/2010 02:32:19 AM 877 Views
Yep, exactly. Aemon - 03/03/2010 02:41:14 AM 675 Views
Re: Yep, exactly. Isaac - 03/03/2010 03:12:48 AM 650 Views
Re: Yep, exactly. everynametaken - 03/03/2010 03:34:33 AM 902 Views
Re: Yep, exactly. Isaac - 03/03/2010 04:34:30 AM 896 Views
*shrugs* I said it was anecdotal. I have no hard figures, only experiences. everynametaken - 03/03/2010 03:28:29 AM 644 Views
The operative word IS mostly LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 04:33:20 AM 845 Views
'Mostly' is all that matters Isaac - 03/03/2010 05:46:01 AM 876 Views
Uhm, socialization is incredibly important. LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 06:03:30 AM 853 Views
Yes, but you don't need to be taught to do it Isaac - 03/03/2010 06:47:06 AM 817 Views
cats aren't pack or herd animals LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 06:53:02 AM 813 Views
Something of an inside joke, sorry Isaac - 03/03/2010 07:41:50 AM 828 Views
us closely associated with schools are sensitive on the issue too LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 01:05:27 PM 649 Views
Re: us closely associated with schools are sensitive on the issue too Isaac - 03/03/2010 10:19:21 PM 715 Views
I would agree that households with two working parnets shouldn't home school *NM* random thoughts - 03/03/2010 03:22:51 PM 443 Views
I'm a homeschooling parent. Beqi - 03/03/2010 07:09:03 PM 822 Views
LOL, we seem well represented on this site Isaac - 03/03/2010 10:02:16 PM 926 Views
to jump on the "I was homeschooled and I have social skills" bandwagon... Mat Maniac - 03/03/2010 06:27:05 AM 1238 Views
I think you may be missing some things random thoughts - 03/03/2010 02:48:27 PM 933 Views
Re: I think you may be missing some things everynametaken - 05/03/2010 12:16:37 AM 1015 Views
I was homeschooled through grade 12, and my mom has done pro bono legal work for HSLDA. Aemon - 03/03/2010 02:20:38 AM 804 Views
I agree that it can be a very good option for some families LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 04:42:21 AM 927 Views
Re: I agree that it can be a very good option for some families Aemon - 03/03/2010 05:16:17 AM 764 Views
It depends on the public school. LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 05:23:09 AM 807 Views
Re: It depends on the public school. Aemon - 03/03/2010 05:45:07 AM 819 Views
"done right" is not always the case LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 05:58:26 AM 627 Views
Re: "done right" is not always the case Aemon - 03/03/2010 06:14:43 AM 955 Views
Re: "done right" is not always the case LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 06:31:04 AM 871 Views
Well let's talk stats then. Aemon - 03/03/2010 06:55:14 AM 814 Views
please do not get me started on statistis. LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 07:11:19 AM 730 Views
Re: please do not get me started on statistis. Aemon - 03/03/2010 07:28:41 AM 787 Views
you missed my point. LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 01:10:26 PM 810 Views
You seem to be ignoring the matter of qualified teachers. Legolas - 03/03/2010 01:29:01 PM 771 Views
Your comments on public school educations have rather limited relevance to other countries, though. Legolas - 03/03/2010 09:53:30 AM 880 Views
+ ^ *NM* LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 01:11:04 PM 438 Views
While I support homeschooling, this is ridiculous. LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 04:48:40 AM 929 Views
Meh. Aemon - 03/03/2010 05:20:50 AM 862 Views
one year in a public school LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 05:32:13 AM 915 Views
Re: one year in a public school Aemon - 03/03/2010 05:58:48 AM 670 Views
No, I think i will nitpick. LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 06:11:44 AM 820 Views
This is getting off track and wasting time. Aemon - 03/03/2010 06:26:36 AM 843 Views
I'm not even certain it's 100% legal. LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 06:34:44 AM 620 Views
Yes, but we can't argue abuse of law. Aemon - 03/03/2010 06:51:23 AM 743 Views
I only used Mexicans because I'm from Arizona LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 07:04:29 AM 877 Views
I think I have the gist of it, Aemon - 03/03/2010 07:17:40 AM 753 Views
we haven't heard anything about their beliefs for me to think they're stupid. LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 02:54:25 PM 859 Views
According to the Süddeutsche Zeitung... Legolas - 03/03/2010 03:38:13 PM 762 Views
they don't have private christian schools in germany? LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 03:54:07 PM 728 Views
Not many, I dare say, but a few probably. *NM* Legolas - 03/03/2010 03:59:11 PM 461 Views
Say what? Legolas - 03/03/2010 09:38:40 AM 723 Views
Being able raise your kids by your beliefs is a frivolous matter? random thoughts - 03/03/2010 03:21:23 PM 659 Views
Germany is not saying "you can't raise your kids by your beliefs" LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 03:31:01 PM 768 Views
It's not a recent law, and supposedly other German families have moved to France and the UK. Legolas - 03/03/2010 03:45:56 PM 858 Views
figured that. LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 03:58:57 PM 745 Views
I think that would fly in very face of political assylum random thoughts - 03/03/2010 04:12:48 PM 816 Views
Yes, but they did not need political asylum. LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 04:28:16 PM 820 Views
how is that different then other political refuges we allow in? random thoughts - 03/03/2010 04:55:14 PM 742 Views
I believe Legolas linked an article LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 04:57:09 PM 725 Views
I never saw the link random thoughts - 03/03/2010 05:08:21 PM 625 Views
I'm not sure if they offered "formal" assurances or some such LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 05:21:54 PM 560 Views
that was a mayor, I doubt he would have the final word on the issue random thoughts - 03/03/2010 05:46:22 PM 620 Views
You don't have a law about removing children from parental custody? At all? Legolas - 03/03/2010 09:43:15 PM 765 Views
They can take your kids from for not sending them to school but not for home schooling them random thoughts - 03/03/2010 10:35:48 PM 771 Views
Compared to not being able to feed your kids, yes, it is. Legolas - 03/03/2010 03:42:58 PM 648 Views
yes but we don't grant political assylum for being hungry random thoughts - 03/03/2010 04:34:23 PM 731 Views
no we don't. LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 04:50:31 PM 596 Views
Do you have a better system? random thoughts - 03/03/2010 05:05:42 PM 889 Views
Immigration processes could certainly use some reform LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 05:32:22 PM 694 Views
The system sucks, big government typically does not function well random thoughts - 03/03/2010 05:48:25 PM 646 Views
we probably would all be better off... LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 07:27:28 PM 740 Views
good because Texas is taken random thoughts - 03/03/2010 07:47:46 PM 765 Views
No, true, that was about the illegal immigrants. Legolas - 03/03/2010 09:53:18 PM 859 Views
Oh, and did you miss the part where the federal government is appealing the decision? *NM* Legolas - 03/03/2010 09:40:42 AM 443 Views
Absolutely. Legolas - 03/03/2010 09:32:41 AM 828 Views
I would consider the threat of losing my children because of my beliefs to be a real threat *NM* random thoughts - 03/03/2010 02:54:08 PM 486 Views
Doesn't matter why, but all parents should have the right to homeschool..... trzaska2000 - 03/03/2010 04:48:57 AM 687 Views
there are far worse faults for a country to have *NM* LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 05:14:11 AM 441 Views
That whole thing is pretty silly snoopcester - 03/03/2010 12:18:45 PM 908 Views
Re: socialising. Rebekah - 03/03/2010 06:13:49 PM 863 Views
And then there are secular people like myself, who The Shrike - 03/03/2010 06:44:13 PM 819 Views
I think I'd do that too, if I had the patience. Rebekah - 03/03/2010 06:45:20 PM 687 Views
*agree* Avendesora - 03/03/2010 07:41:56 PM 856 Views
That is the catagory I'm in. Beqi - 03/03/2010 07:46:12 PM 748 Views
Re: probably more likely snoopcester - 04/03/2010 12:19:37 AM 869 Views
I am opposed to homeschooling but believe it should be a legal option. Tom - 03/03/2010 02:32:34 PM 836 Views
I think you make a good point here random thoughts - 03/03/2010 05:22:59 PM 847 Views
but...but...parents can't educate their children outside of school!! LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 05:40:30 PM 775 Views
I don't agree with them I just support their right to be wrong random thoughts - 03/03/2010 06:04:11 PM 837 Views
The statistics are flawed, as I've noted above LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 07:07:11 PM 691 Views
they tend to beat private schools as well would should flatten out the demographics random thoughts - 03/03/2010 07:53:38 PM 779 Views
Your views on this are not fact-driven Isaac - 03/03/2010 09:13:07 PM 872 Views
No, what you're saying is that my answer isn't driven by STATISTICS. Tom - 03/03/2010 10:36:50 PM 805 Views
Granted, but there is no obvious source for bias Isaac - 03/03/2010 10:57:19 PM 738 Views
Again, I'm not saying it applies to everyone Tom - 03/03/2010 11:51:17 PM 647 Views
Re: Again, I'm not saying it applies to everyone Isaac - 04/03/2010 12:16:29 AM 887 Views
You mean aside from the fact that you are already arguing about it? snoopcester - 04/03/2010 12:14:02 AM 624 Views
Yes, I mentioned this in my reply to Tom, see below... Isaac - 04/03/2010 12:19:42 AM 767 Views
Fair enough snoopcester - 04/03/2010 12:21:41 AM 671 Views
Re: Fair enough Isaac - 04/03/2010 12:37:06 AM 1111 Views
Re: Fair enough snoopcester - 04/03/2010 09:39:38 AM 800 Views
And the wikipedia article you pointed me to had a different study that contradicts your point. Tom - 03/03/2010 10:42:54 PM 754 Views
Religious or *moral* instruction Isaac - 03/03/2010 10:49:48 PM 815 Views
I haven't really "met" you the way I meant it in that reply Tom - 03/03/2010 11:48:11 PM 619 Views
Granted but for our purposes I think people on this site would qualify Isaac - 04/03/2010 12:05:03 AM 787 Views
Umm Massachusetts did have slavery in 1717 random thoughts - 03/03/2010 02:55:25 PM 733 Views
His argument on the law of Germany is a bad one generally, though, not just for that reason. Tom - 03/03/2010 03:31:00 PM 650 Views
Wow....so this got the board going. A question for everyone... Jeordam - 03/03/2010 06:02:57 PM 911 Views
I think it is incumbent on the state to show that kids are being in some way harmed random thoughts - 03/03/2010 06:07:13 PM 852 Views
Interesting SilverWarder - 03/03/2010 06:25:43 PM 941 Views
I never said there should be no limits on what parents should be able to do random thoughts - 03/03/2010 06:38:53 PM 887 Views
What you said was: SilverWarder - 03/03/2010 06:51:26 PM 903 Views
I think it's safe to say teaching your kids to be little sociopaths qualifies as harm. Joel - 03/03/2010 09:17:48 PM 660 Views
I think so too SilverWarder - 03/03/2010 10:46:41 PM 896 Views
I think the problem there was it was seen as inherently political, that, and showing harm. Joel - 03/03/2010 11:44:21 PM 714 Views
Yes they do. Provided... LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 07:04:46 PM 755 Views
One of the reasons... Avendesora - 03/03/2010 07:40:54 PM 843 Views
that is fair enough LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 07:51:31 PM 721 Views
There is a reason why education until 18 (or 16, depending) is not merely a right, but a duty. Legolas - 03/03/2010 10:00:53 PM 825 Views
Hmmph. Inappropriate action on the part of the judge who allowed them to stay. SilverWarder - 03/03/2010 06:22:08 PM 787 Views
I agree completely with this. *NM* The Shrike - 03/03/2010 06:42:01 PM 492 Views
agree. *NM* Avendesora - 03/03/2010 06:49:01 PM 318 Views
You just skip the part where they have to show they are being persecuted random thoughts - 03/03/2010 06:54:20 PM 910 Views
"Persecution" can be a matter of opinion, though. SilverWarder - 03/03/2010 07:04:46 PM 881 Views
officers will track down kids ditching school here. LadyLorraine - 03/03/2010 07:17:57 PM 923 Views
I'm not sure what they do in Canada SilverWarder - 03/03/2010 10:49:00 PM 868 Views
Agrees Roland00 - 03/03/2010 06:54:59 PM 750 Views
As I said, most people would prefer to have their safety threatened to losing their kids. *NM* Cannoli - 06/03/2010 10:14:52 PM 521 Views
New Cosmic Powers of the admins Roland00 - 03/03/2010 06:52:57 PM 653 Views
It is the Power of the Ben™ *NM* Avendesora - 03/03/2010 08:48:11 PM 454 Views
*walks in, looks around* ßelals Girl - 03/03/2010 07:52:09 PM 864 Views
Re: *walks in, looks around* Macharius - 03/03/2010 09:25:46 PM 641 Views
What, no defending Germany today? *NM* Legolas - 03/03/2010 10:03:01 PM 459 Views
Even I need a day off *NM* ßelals Girl - 04/03/2010 01:02:17 AM 447 Views
Re: *walks in, looks around* ironclad - 03/03/2010 10:33:24 PM 681 Views
Interesting SilverWarder - 03/03/2010 11:02:27 PM 853 Views
Am I recalling correctly that you know some German? Legolas - 03/03/2010 11:07:00 PM 813 Views
Sorry, nope. SilverWarder - 04/03/2010 09:14:49 PM 616 Views
Oh. Ah well. Legolas - 04/03/2010 09:23:11 PM 769 Views
One thing all of us homeschooled kids are missing is... beckstcw - 04/03/2010 01:53:22 AM 740 Views
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