Joel and I have been using the analogy 'herd of cats' a lot recently in our back-and-forths, to describe the general lack of cohesiveness on the left, considering we've also been joking recently about how we tend to continue talking at each other in long abandoned threads we hijacked, I shouldn't have expected anyone to catch that joke
Being something of a cat person, I probably overly relate human and feline behavior, but I tend to think we act more like cats then say, sheep. Or should I say, ideally we want people to act more like cats than sheep, and I am not sure packing kids into a classroom encourages that.
Yes, I've usually found most people have a solid attention span for around 20-30 minutes and a lesser span for around an hour, I'm not sure this represents a flaw in standardized testing, just the education system. I've never had a 'standardized education' and I seemed to have done fine on standardized tests, though admittedly I might have occassionally underscored since sometimes I'd see stuff that I hadn't been taught, I don't think I knew what a 'preposition' was until I was 20, it just hadn't come up. Anyway, I'm not really sure the flaw lies in the concept of standardized testing, but in the method in which it's applied. Currently teachers fear it, because it causes stress, as opposed to representing an incentive. I don't like the punishment approach in teaching, so I don't like it for teachers either. A bonus system seems better, with the tests broad enough in the question pool that they can't teach to the test, this is not hard, the solutions are known and easy, but you have two (or more) competing political ideologies who seem to have a vested interest in making the alternative options fail and theirs appear to succeed more than in making their's genuinely work.
Sorry to hear that. Well, you're certainly welcome to argue, I never mind chatting with polite persons about almost anything. Keep in mind though, that most homeschoolers are understandably defensive on this issue, as I mentioned in an earlier post, we tend to view this 'lack of social interaction' thingy as about one step up from comments of the 'fried chicken and watermelon' or 'jocks are dumb' variety. A cheap red herring to try to detract from our academic credentials. The reality of the situation is obvious, students whose parents are heavily interested in their education outperform students whose parents are not, on average. So fundamentally we outperform simply because parents who homeschool self-select essentially out of a pool who are basically by definition very interested in their kid's schooling. That's really the long and short of it, but I think we tend to benefit a bit since our non-jail atmosphere is a bit less likely to make someone have a distaste for schooling, and by association, learning.
Being something of a cat person, I probably overly relate human and feline behavior, but I tend to think we act more like cats then say, sheep. Or should I say, ideally we want people to act more like cats than sheep, and I am not sure packing kids into a classroom encourages that.recess used to get a good chunk of time though
And teachers used to give us breaks during class. This is part of why I abhor standardized testing. It's put a lot more strain on the teachers. My mom can't afford to give her kids breaks, because her assenine principal will get on her for not "using the time productively" (Because we all know 6 yr olds can focus for hours at at time on learning and not playing)
And teachers used to give us breaks during class. This is part of why I abhor standardized testing. It's put a lot more strain on the teachers. My mom can't afford to give her kids breaks, because her assenine principal will get on her for not "using the time productively" (Because we all know 6 yr olds can focus for hours at at time on learning and not playing)Yes, I've usually found most people have a solid attention span for around 20-30 minutes and a lesser span for around an hour, I'm not sure this represents a flaw in standardized testing, just the education system. I've never had a 'standardized education' and I seemed to have done fine on standardized tests, though admittedly I might have occassionally underscored since sometimes I'd see stuff that I hadn't been taught, I don't think I knew what a 'preposition' was until I was 20, it just hadn't come up. Anyway, I'm not really sure the flaw lies in the concept of standardized testing, but in the method in which it's applied. Currently teachers fear it, because it causes stress, as opposed to representing an incentive. I don't like the punishment approach in teaching, so I don't like it for teachers either. A bonus system seems better, with the tests broad enough in the question pool that they can't teach to the test, this is not hard, the solutions are known and easy, but you have two (or more) competing political ideologies who seem to have a vested interest in making the alternative options fail and theirs appear to succeed more than in making their's genuinely work.
and if you didn't see the part where "I agree with you", it is there
My only point was a child in school will have socialization to some degree by default. A home schooled child may not. That was the only thing I was trying to say 
My only point was a child in school will have socialization to some degree by default. A home schooled child may not. That was the only thing I was trying to say 
I know, I was just saying
like i said, I was mostly just being a pain
I've had a bad day and have felt the need to distract from it by arguing.
like i said, I was mostly just being a pain
I've had a bad day and have felt the need to distract from it by arguing.Sorry to hear that. Well, you're certainly welcome to argue, I never mind chatting with polite persons about almost anything. Keep in mind though, that most homeschoolers are understandably defensive on this issue, as I mentioned in an earlier post, we tend to view this 'lack of social interaction' thingy as about one step up from comments of the 'fried chicken and watermelon' or 'jocks are dumb' variety. A cheap red herring to try to detract from our academic credentials. The reality of the situation is obvious, students whose parents are heavily interested in their education outperform students whose parents are not, on average. So fundamentally we outperform simply because parents who homeschool self-select essentially out of a pool who are basically by definition very interested in their kid's schooling. That's really the long and short of it, but I think we tend to benefit a bit since our non-jail atmosphere is a bit less likely to make someone have a distaste for schooling, and by association, learning.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
Homeschooling: German Family Gets Political Asylum in U.S.
- 02/03/2010 10:30:01 PM
1640 Views
Looks like a win-win situation to me.
- 02/03/2010 11:01:22 PM
893 Views
Germany does have a history of getting rid of people it doesn't like *NM*
- 03/03/2010 02:08:37 PM
532 Views
Yawn. At least beckstcw was joking when he invoked Godwin's law below. I hope. *NM*
- 03/03/2010 02:10:18 PM
448 Views
That is a load of crap
- 03/03/2010 02:53:02 PM
535 Views
uhm, how would Germany be offending the US?
- 03/03/2010 02:56:52 PM
504 Views
Um.
- 03/03/2010 02:57:53 PM
379 Views
But our religious beliefs and belief in allowing religious freedom is fair game?
- 03/03/2010 03:09:48 PM
384 Views
Yes?
- 03/03/2010 03:40:30 PM
360 Views
If you made fun of the Native Americans I would be offended
- 03/03/2010 03:46:05 PM
611 Views
It's actually quite the opposite.
- 03/03/2010 03:57:19 PM
588 Views
and I would say they trying to fix intolerance with more intolerance
- 03/03/2010 04:13:49 PM
372 Views
That was probably the stupidest thing I ever saw you write
- 03/03/2010 03:28:39 PM
544 Views
You were the one who said good riddance
- 03/03/2010 03:43:24 PM
392 Views
It's the usual story of American ideology and European pragmatism.
- 03/03/2010 03:52:51 PM
552 Views
This is getting a bit off the discussion. Please keep it civil, everyone. *NM*
- 03/03/2010 06:55:11 PM
475 Views
Re: Homeschooling: German Family Gets Political Asylum in U.S.
- 03/03/2010 01:09:23 AM
1037 Views
The socialization thing is mostly garbage
- 03/03/2010 02:32:19 AM
899 Views
Yep, exactly.
- 03/03/2010 02:41:14 AM
698 Views
Re: Yep, exactly.
- 03/03/2010 03:12:48 AM
671 Views
*shrugs* I said it was anecdotal. I have no hard figures, only experiences.
- 03/03/2010 03:28:29 AM
672 Views
The operative word IS mostly
- 03/03/2010 04:33:20 AM
871 Views
'Mostly' is all that matters
- 03/03/2010 05:46:01 AM
901 Views
Uhm, socialization is incredibly important.
- 03/03/2010 06:03:30 AM
879 Views
Yes, but you don't need to be taught to do it
- 03/03/2010 06:47:06 AM
833 Views
cats aren't pack or herd animals
- 03/03/2010 06:53:02 AM
835 Views
- 03/03/2010 06:53:02 AM
835 Views
Something of an inside joke, sorry
- 03/03/2010 07:41:50 AM
849 Views
us closely associated with schools are sensitive on the issue too
- 03/03/2010 01:05:27 PM
672 Views
- 03/03/2010 01:05:27 PM
672 Views
Re: us closely associated with schools are sensitive on the issue too
- 03/03/2010 10:19:21 PM
744 Views
- 03/03/2010 10:19:21 PM
744 Views
I would agree that households with two working parnets shouldn't home school *NM*
- 03/03/2010 03:22:51 PM
458 Views
to jump on the "I was homeschooled and I have social skills" bandwagon...
- 03/03/2010 06:27:05 AM
1262 Views
I was homeschooled through grade 12, and my mom has done pro bono legal work for HSLDA.
- 03/03/2010 02:20:38 AM
828 Views
I agree that it can be a very good option for some families
- 03/03/2010 04:42:21 AM
947 Views
Re: I agree that it can be a very good option for some families
- 03/03/2010 05:16:17 AM
786 Views
It depends on the public school.
- 03/03/2010 05:23:09 AM
830 Views
Re: It depends on the public school.
- 03/03/2010 05:45:07 AM
841 Views
"done right" is not always the case
- 03/03/2010 05:58:26 AM
651 Views
Re: "done right" is not always the case
- 03/03/2010 06:14:43 AM
978 Views
Re: "done right" is not always the case
- 03/03/2010 06:31:04 AM
889 Views
Well let's talk stats then.
- 03/03/2010 06:55:14 AM
834 Views
please do not get me started on statistis.
- 03/03/2010 07:11:19 AM
756 Views
Your comments on public school educations have rather limited relevance to other countries, though.
- 03/03/2010 09:53:30 AM
900 Views
While I support homeschooling, this is ridiculous.
- 03/03/2010 04:48:40 AM
956 Views
Meh.
- 03/03/2010 05:20:50 AM
883 Views
one year in a public school
- 03/03/2010 05:32:13 AM
940 Views
Re: one year in a public school
- 03/03/2010 05:58:48 AM
696 Views
No, I think i will nitpick.
- 03/03/2010 06:11:44 AM
839 Views
This is getting off track and wasting time.
- 03/03/2010 06:26:36 AM
869 Views
I'm not even certain it's 100% legal.
- 03/03/2010 06:34:44 AM
642 Views
Yes, but we can't argue abuse of law.
- 03/03/2010 06:51:23 AM
763 Views
I only used Mexicans because I'm from Arizona
- 03/03/2010 07:04:29 AM
900 Views
- 03/03/2010 07:04:29 AM
900 Views
I think I have the gist of it,
- 03/03/2010 07:17:40 AM
776 Views
we haven't heard anything about their beliefs for me to think they're stupid.
- 03/03/2010 02:54:25 PM
882 Views
According to the Süddeutsche Zeitung...
- 03/03/2010 03:38:13 PM
788 Views
Say what?
- 03/03/2010 09:38:40 AM
743 Views
Being able raise your kids by your beliefs is a frivolous matter?
- 03/03/2010 03:21:23 PM
677 Views
Germany is not saying "you can't raise your kids by your beliefs"
- 03/03/2010 03:31:01 PM
789 Views
It's not a recent law, and supposedly other German families have moved to France and the UK.
- 03/03/2010 03:45:56 PM
879 Views
I think that would fly in very face of political assylum
- 03/03/2010 04:12:48 PM
836 Views
Yes, but they did not need political asylum.
- 03/03/2010 04:28:16 PM
840 Views
how is that different then other political refuges we allow in?
- 03/03/2010 04:55:14 PM
764 Views
I believe Legolas linked an article
- 03/03/2010 04:57:09 PM
749 Views
I never saw the link
- 03/03/2010 05:08:21 PM
656 Views
I'm not sure if they offered "formal" assurances or some such
- 03/03/2010 05:21:54 PM
587 Views
that was a mayor, I doubt he would have the final word on the issue
- 03/03/2010 05:46:22 PM
645 Views
You don't have a law about removing children from parental custody? At all?
- 03/03/2010 09:43:15 PM
794 Views
They can take your kids from for not sending them to school but not for home schooling them
- 03/03/2010 10:35:48 PM
795 Views
Compared to not being able to feed your kids, yes, it is.
- 03/03/2010 03:42:58 PM
670 Views
yes but we don't grant political assylum for being hungry
- 03/03/2010 04:34:23 PM
750 Views
no we don't.
- 03/03/2010 04:50:31 PM
617 Views
Do you have a better system?
- 03/03/2010 05:05:42 PM
917 Views
Immigration processes could certainly use some reform
- 03/03/2010 05:32:22 PM
717 Views
The system sucks, big government typically does not function well
- 03/03/2010 05:48:25 PM
670 Views
Oh, and did you miss the part where the federal government is appealing the decision? *NM*
- 03/03/2010 09:40:42 AM
460 Views
I would consider the threat of losing my children because of my beliefs to be a real threat *NM*
- 03/03/2010 02:54:08 PM
503 Views
Doesn't matter why, but all parents should have the right to homeschool.....
- 03/03/2010 04:48:57 AM
711 Views
That whole thing is pretty silly
- 03/03/2010 12:18:45 PM
952 Views
Re: socialising.
- 03/03/2010 06:13:49 PM
890 Views
I am opposed to homeschooling but believe it should be a legal option.
- 03/03/2010 02:32:34 PM
857 Views
I think you make a good point here
- 03/03/2010 05:22:59 PM
871 Views
but...but...parents can't educate their children outside of school!!
- 03/03/2010 05:40:30 PM
797 Views
I don't agree with them I just support their right to be wrong
- 03/03/2010 06:04:11 PM
861 Views
The statistics are flawed, as I've noted above
- 03/03/2010 07:07:11 PM
716 Views
they tend to beat private schools as well would should flatten out the demographics
- 03/03/2010 07:53:38 PM
805 Views
Your views on this are not fact-driven
- 03/03/2010 09:13:07 PM
898 Views
No, what you're saying is that my answer isn't driven by STATISTICS.
- 03/03/2010 10:36:50 PM
832 Views
Granted, but there is no obvious source for bias
- 03/03/2010 10:57:19 PM
766 Views
You mean aside from the fact that you are already arguing about it?
- 04/03/2010 12:14:02 AM
646 Views
Yes, I mentioned this in my reply to Tom, see below...
- 04/03/2010 12:19:42 AM
789 Views
And the wikipedia article you pointed me to had a different study that contradicts your point.
- 03/03/2010 10:42:54 PM
780 Views
Religious or *moral* instruction
- 03/03/2010 10:49:48 PM
837 Views
I haven't really "met" you the way I meant it in that reply
- 03/03/2010 11:48:11 PM
643 Views
Granted but for our purposes I think people on this site would qualify
- 04/03/2010 12:05:03 AM
812 Views
Umm Massachusetts did have slavery in 1717
- 03/03/2010 02:55:25 PM
753 Views
His argument on the law of Germany is a bad one generally, though, not just for that reason.
- 03/03/2010 03:31:00 PM
669 Views
Wow....so this got the board going. A question for everyone...
- 03/03/2010 06:02:57 PM
936 Views
I think it is incumbent on the state to show that kids are being in some way harmed
- 03/03/2010 06:07:13 PM
874 Views
Interesting
- 03/03/2010 06:25:43 PM
965 Views
I never said there should be no limits on what parents should be able to do
- 03/03/2010 06:38:53 PM
910 Views
I think it's safe to say teaching your kids to be little sociopaths qualifies as harm.
- 03/03/2010 09:17:48 PM
705 Views
I think so too
- 03/03/2010 10:46:41 PM
920 Views
I think the problem there was it was seen as inherently political, that, and showing harm.
- 03/03/2010 11:44:21 PM
737 Views
Yes they do. Provided...
- 03/03/2010 07:04:46 PM
778 Views
There is a reason why education until 18 (or 16, depending) is not merely a right, but a duty.
- 03/03/2010 10:00:53 PM
849 Views
Hmmph. Inappropriate action on the part of the judge who allowed them to stay.
- 03/03/2010 06:22:08 PM
810 Views
You just skip the part where they have to show they are being persecuted
- 03/03/2010 06:54:20 PM
936 Views
As I said, most people would prefer to have their safety threatened to losing their kids. *NM*
- 06/03/2010 10:14:52 PM
533 Views
*walks in, looks around*
- 03/03/2010 07:52:09 PM
884 Views
Interesting
- 03/03/2010 11:02:27 PM
880 Views

