I thought that "winner sets the rules" mentality went away after the results of Versailles. If a deal is to be viable, it'll have to take both sides into account.
Did we let the Germans and Japanese set the rules after WWII? What some seem to want is a switch where the loser sets the rules.
Hence why I stated that both sides would need to be taken into account. And no, the losers didn't dictate the peace deals after WWII but they were also not as harshly treated as after WWI.
But as for what needs to be settled for a peace in the region:
- Israel needs to give up some settlements so that a Palestinian state can be viable (and this state will be less than the 1967 borders, as that's the starting point for negotiations)
- Israel needs to give up some settlements so that a Palestinian state can be viable (and this state will be less than the 1967 borders, as that's the starting point for negotiations)
How many? I have not heard the Palestinians say they would agree to stop the conflict if Israel simply gives up some settlements and that is what we need to hear.
How does "X side hasn't said they'll drop the conflict if one part is solved" equal "This point needs to be fixed if the conflict is to be solved"? There are several other major issues that also need to be taken care of. The Palestinian leadership (including Hamas) is well aware that this is the only way to solve it, even if they don't proclaim it too loudly (as that'd lead to them being viewed as giving up the struggle, and a prompt loss of support). It's a bit like how running on campaign finance reform works in the US
- Refugees need to somehow be compensated for not being able to return
Again I have not heard the Palestinians say they will accept a cash payment. Until they agree to accept money in return for dropping their claim it is a mute point.
Also there comes a point where you stop being a refuge and that point is less then 40 years.
Yes, the surrounding Arab countries need to be in on this, in dropping their use of Palestinians as a way to show Israel as the bad guys and accepting that they have a bunch more citizens. Again, this is one issue that will not be solved until both sides sit down to negotiate in good faith.
- Palestinians need to build up a police/security force and stop attacks on Israel
That would be a good start but until that happens I don't think Israel should give them anything. If Israel gives them what they want while there is still violence it will not be a peace treaty it will be extortion not to mention it won't accomplish anything. The Palestinians have been using these methods for decades now with nothing but misery to show for I see no reason to believe they will abandon them if they start to actually work.
For the Palestinians to be able to build up such a force they'll need support from (or more accurately, to work with) Israel. As the situation stands now, neither Fatah nor Hamas really have an effective such organisation.
- The status of Jerusalem needs to be settled. Remember how it was supposed to be an independent, UN-run area in the 1948 partitioning plan. Both sides need to realise that they can not have it on their own if they want peace.
The UN couldn't run a bake sale and they do not have a history of being pro-Israel. Jerusalem need to open to all three major religions but Israel should not have to hand over control.
Not even over the areas that they are, according to international law, illegally occupying? That's where the new apartments announced last week are to be built.
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I am the Demon of Delightfulness and Sinister Smirkings!
e^(πi)+1=0
identity named after the Terry Pratchett of 18th century mathematics
I am the Demon of Delightfulness and Sinister Smirkings!
e^(πi)+1=0
identity named after the Terry Pratchett of 18th century mathematics
This message last edited by Floffe on 19/03/2010 at 03:05:01 PM
Turkey threatens to expel 100,000 Armenians
- 17/03/2010 05:10:26 PM
990 Views
Why not let sleeping dogs lie?
- 17/03/2010 05:22:34 PM
464 Views
Erdogan is the Middle East's Chavez. *NM*
- 17/03/2010 06:38:00 PM
214 Views
I think Lieberman has the better claim there. *NM*
- 18/03/2010 03:39:29 AM
186 Views
Hardly. Lieberman makes sense
- 18/03/2010 05:34:43 PM
372 Views
I've read some articles saying otherwise.
- 18/03/2010 05:49:52 PM
428 Views
Torpedoing Biden's mission ? What a sad joke.
- 18/03/2010 06:22:37 PM
382 Views
Would you like to call it something else?
- 18/03/2010 06:26:34 PM
425 Views
Because Obama was looking for a way to get offended
- 18/03/2010 06:54:55 PM
573 Views
Your problem is that a "settlement freeze" doesn't impress anyone at all.
- 18/03/2010 07:16:55 PM
383 Views
Maybe we should just ask the Palestinians if we can keep Tel Aviv ?
- 18/03/2010 07:44:07 PM
363 Views
If you want anyone to be impressed, yes.
- 18/03/2010 09:03:11 PM
348 Views
How is it too much when there is a freeze ?
- 18/03/2010 09:22:03 PM
416 Views
You call this a freeze?
- 18/03/2010 09:43:52 PM
463 Views
Not your sourness silly. Obama's
- 18/03/2010 10:15:56 PM
393 Views
How long are supposed to stop building for?
- 18/03/2010 09:32:58 PM
366 Views
How about permanently? 
- 18/03/2010 09:50:46 PM
426 Views
- 18/03/2010 09:50:46 PM
426 Views
I don't think i agree that the condidtions for peace or that well known
- 19/03/2010 04:32:37 AM
344 Views
Major conditions
- 19/03/2010 09:59:37 AM
392 Views
Re: Major conditions
- 19/03/2010 01:26:54 PM
403 Views
Seriously, what conflict are you looking at?
- 19/03/2010 01:56:24 PM
555 Views
Re: Seriously, what conflict are you looking at?
- 19/03/2010 04:47:07 PM
382 Views
Ah, good point there... I was kinda thinking of the West.
- 19/03/2010 08:31:11 PM
410 Views
- 19/03/2010 08:31:11 PM
410 Views
well I wasn't talking about how anyone treated but who was making the decisions
- 19/03/2010 09:24:47 PM
459 Views
That really isn't a very useful observation at this point, though.
- 19/03/2010 09:32:30 PM
363 Views
Man, your analysis is weird
- 20/03/2010 11:24:40 AM
661 Views
I'm a bit confused what you're saying exactly...
- 20/03/2010 04:10:14 PM
407 Views
How so ?
- 20/03/2010 11:04:30 PM
350 Views
Re: Major conditions
- 19/03/2010 03:01:42 PM
529 Views
They don't exactly have much that they *can* give up.
- 19/03/2010 10:46:35 AM
415 Views
I don't want them to give up anything more then the violience
- 19/03/2010 01:55:51 PM
410 Views
That's simple enough: Israel is a first world state.
- 19/03/2010 02:13:17 PM
374 Views
It is pretty crude
- 17/03/2010 11:15:28 PM
464 Views
Why is recognizing a 100-year-old evil in his country's past "backing him into a corner"????
- 18/03/2010 11:41:05 AM
422 Views
The guy who has managed to face down one military coup from a sector that doesn't want it admitted?
- 18/03/2010 12:39:46 PM
491 Views
Why is it so hard for you people to see that the AKP are the "good guys" in Turkey?
- 18/03/2010 01:44:13 PM
378 Views
There are no "good guys" in Turkey, at least not in the government.
- 18/03/2010 01:57:44 PM
358 Views
Equating the two is ridiculous.
- 18/03/2010 02:13:37 PM
567 Views
My issues are not with a lack of democracy and I don't equate the AKP and the military
- 18/03/2010 02:35:00 PM
497 Views
So they respond to claims of genocide with threats of ethnic cleansing? Terrible. Just terrible.
- 18/03/2010 11:39:31 AM
397 Views
I agree. What they are doing now only makes things worse for them
- 18/03/2010 08:48:25 PM
328 Views