Active Users:1325 Time:15/06/2026 10:29:52 PM
True. LordPerrin Send a noteboard - 07/04/2010 01:14:45 AM
Take out WWI, and the Soviet Union never comes about. Hitler never comes to power. No WWII. Nuclear weapons aren't invented (or at the least, delayed). No Holocaust. No Korean War, no Vietnam War. You basically take out a bunch of the bad stuff of the past 90-odd years just by taking out WWI.

It's the problem of history, really; redrawing Europes map in the wake of the Napoleonic Wars, and a century of dancing around the consequences to avoid another major war, made some form of the Great War inevitable. The pressure was never relieved, it just built with each attempt to contain it, until it exploded.

Without the Great War the tensions that led to the Bolshevik Revolution are still present; they'd been festering in Russia for some time before 1914, already having resulted in the assassination of a Czar and the exile of Lenin well before war broke out in Europe. That comes to a head sooner or later, too; the absence of the Great War might mean the White Army wins the Russian civil war due to greater Western aid, but the problems remain, and the fact is Russia was plenty autocratic even before Stalin, so the same Cold War might have resulted, only slightly mitigated by the debt the Czars owed the west for keeping them on the throne. And, yeah, nuclear weapons are just the inevitable march of science; had America not used them it's entirely possible WWII would've lasted long enough for Japan to develop them, a big game changer.


The thing is, though, that WWI caused a lot of these things to happen sooner. While they still might have happened, WWI was the powder keg that set them off.

Had the problems been addressed, seriously and fairly addressed, after 1848 the Great War might have been avoided. Until that happened some form of large scale conflict among all the injured and injuring parties was just a matter of time, but sometimes that timing is important. Imagine it had been delayed until the '30s, or the '40s, or the '50s. Trench warfare, chemical warfare, artillery and machine guns directed at the "human waves" these are all terrible--but what if we delay it until the atom is split...?

Maybe it WAS inevitable; Europe DID manage German and Italian integration before the Great War, but the problems stemming from the first Islamic military push across the Bosporus remained (and largely still do, which is the biggest reason I think admitting Turkey to the EU before dealing with them is, to use a term now associated with an earlier form of the same conflict, "MADNESS!" ) The Sick Man was a well known problem in Europe long before the Great War, but the solution was less well known.


If all this was delayed greatly, then there might have been a war greater than WWI. Then humanity might have been in real trouble then.
I'm not strange. I'm normal. Everyone else is strange.
Oosta!
Never underestimate the power of the nerd!
Reply to message
I know I just did a survey, but this was too good to pass up. - 07/04/2010 12:44:15 AM 862 Views
Myself: World War I. - 07/04/2010 12:45:57 AM 734 Views
I don't think it's that simple. - 07/04/2010 12:57:16 AM 684 Views
I see your point. - 07/04/2010 01:02:33 AM 678 Views
Sometimes sooner is better than later. - 07/04/2010 01:10:11 AM 659 Views
True. - 07/04/2010 01:14:45 AM 635 Views
True, one might even say *adding* a war there would've improved things. - 07/04/2010 01:36:07 AM 638 Views
*nods* A small war is usually preferable to a big war. - 07/04/2010 01:49:06 AM 635 Views
The Plague - 07/04/2010 12:52:33 AM 617 Views
Re: The Plague - 07/04/2010 01:05:35 AM 513 Views
Maybe; there were episodic plague epidemics before and after that time. - 07/04/2010 02:05:18 AM 675 Views
I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague - 07/04/2010 02:50:25 AM 616 Views
Re: I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague - 07/04/2010 08:45:26 PM 608 Views
I'm so glad you have the time and inclination to type up these replies. *NM* - 08/04/2010 07:09:22 AM 388 Views
...? - 08/04/2010 07:51:14 PM 526 Views
Sounds like he was thanking you for saving him the effort of writing a similar reply. *NM* - 08/04/2010 09:28:55 PM 408 Views
If that is the case, then great *NM* - 08/04/2010 09:30:51 PM 361 Views
The spread of Christianity - 07/04/2010 12:55:29 AM 693 Views
Huh. Wild to think about. *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:06:44 AM 393 Views
Re: The spread of Christianity - 07/04/2010 08:47:06 PM 511 Views
Re: The spread of Christianity - 08/04/2010 09:29:17 AM 531 Views
Why would that have an impact on Judaism? - 08/04/2010 01:40:47 PM 610 Views
Re: Why would that have an impact on Judaism? - 08/04/2010 01:42:25 PM 442 Views
But wasn't Christianity the inspiration for a whole era of art? *NM* - 08/04/2010 01:41:34 PM 482 Views
Re: But wasn't Christianity the inspiration for a whole era of art? - 08/04/2010 01:44:36 PM 661 Views
precisely. - 08/04/2010 05:37:26 PM 632 Views
sorry, didn't see that Lorraine already addressed this. *NM* - 08/04/2010 07:55:00 PM 387 Views
The Partition of India, 1947... *NM* - 07/04/2010 12:59:32 AM 392 Views
Any paticular reason why? *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:34:54 AM 391 Views
Agreed. *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:59:02 AM 508 Views
The destruction of the Great Library. - 07/04/2010 01:02:59 AM 587 Views
Internet spam sucks indeed. - 07/04/2010 01:08:23 AM 690 Views
We'll never know; makes for fascinating speculative fiction. - 07/04/2010 01:13:49 AM 641 Views
This whole topic is wild, it's something I sometimes think about. - 07/04/2010 01:17:50 AM 625 Views
Ya, that's what makes history so gripping. - 07/04/2010 01:19:54 AM 715 Views
I don't know if that's really true... - 07/04/2010 01:39:51 AM 635 Views
It wouldn't have been as sudden or extreme. - 07/04/2010 01:58:39 AM 673 Views
"Joel captures Alexandria! The Great Library is destroyed!" *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:08:35 AM 259 Views
NOOOO1111 - 07/04/2010 01:11:33 AM 547 Views
A shame. It's one of the better ones, too. *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:14:20 AM 392 Views
Not in the first two Civs. - 07/04/2010 01:22:43 AM 480 Views
Civ, i love that game... - 07/04/2010 03:01:13 AM 588 Views
Yeah that's one of the small annoying things - 07/04/2010 07:34:52 AM 479 Views
An interesting point - 07/04/2010 02:57:03 AM 642 Views
That's usually my reply to this question too *NM* - 07/04/2010 11:42:55 AM 360 Views
if the giant meteor hadn't destroyed the dinosaurs... - 07/04/2010 01:10:42 AM 551 Views
"FOR" global warming? Now there's a phrase I never thought I'd here! - 07/04/2010 01:16:04 AM 469 Views
The spread of Islam - 07/04/2010 01:26:11 AM 651 Views
oh aren't you clever. *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:47:13 AM 369 Views
There's such a thing as being right for the wrong reasons, though I'm not sure he is. - 07/04/2010 02:12:14 AM 466 Views
Wikipedia is of course not a scholarly source, but all the same... - 07/04/2010 11:57:01 AM 619 Views
Fair enough. - 07/04/2010 12:51:16 PM 609 Views
I read the Bernard Lewis article referred to at Wikipedia... - 07/04/2010 01:19:03 PM 595 Views
So it's borrowed propaganda. - 13/04/2010 09:30:39 AM 581 Views
Re: The spread of Islam - 08/04/2010 09:24:31 AM 686 Views
Haha, are you kidding? - 08/04/2010 07:59:39 PM 450 Views
Re: Haha, are you kidding? - 08/04/2010 08:50:33 PM 438 Views
Ask yourself the question... - 08/04/2010 09:33:33 PM 454 Views
I don't see the connection. - 08/04/2010 08:49:46 PM 630 Views
Re: I don't see the connection. - 08/04/2010 08:51:21 PM 493 Views
I'd better not touch this one - 07/04/2010 03:12:00 AM 661 Views
The spread of Judaism. - 07/04/2010 04:30:37 AM 589 Views
Re: The spread of Judaism. - 07/04/2010 07:31:02 AM 529 Views
I...do not know. - 07/04/2010 07:18:13 AM 523 Views
Amusing that the underlying expectation seems to be more along political history lines - 07/04/2010 12:56:49 PM 704 Views
Considering the way history is taught, is it surprising? *NM* - 08/04/2010 07:11:03 AM 351 Views
Nope, not really - 08/04/2010 10:24:54 AM 617 Views
Here's one that'll be more to your liking... - 08/04/2010 10:40:53 AM 456 Views
Yes - 08/04/2010 10:52:11 AM 596 Views
Re: Here's one that'll be more to your liking... - 08/04/2010 11:58:27 AM 490 Views
Uh... - 08/04/2010 12:11:14 PM 650 Views
Re: Uh... - 08/04/2010 12:15:20 PM 667 Views
The Devil is always in the details - 08/04/2010 12:29:25 PM 612 Views
Re: The Devil is always in the details - 08/04/2010 12:32:34 PM 401 Views
Not really - 08/04/2010 01:07:57 PM 569 Views
Re: Not really - 08/04/2010 01:10:16 PM 488 Views
Only to a degree - 08/04/2010 01:27:22 PM 586 Views
Re: Only to a degree - 08/04/2010 01:30:12 PM 698 Views
I was into cultural and religious history - 08/04/2010 01:38:24 PM 593 Views
Re: I was into cultural and religious history - 08/04/2010 01:41:31 PM 464 Views
Ha! - 08/04/2010 01:49:23 PM 621 Views
Re: Ha! - 08/04/2010 01:51:28 PM 447 Views
I'm really sleep deprived... - 08/04/2010 02:13:20 PM 745 Views
Re: I'm really sleep deprived... - 08/04/2010 02:19:07 PM 493 Views
- 08/04/2010 02:52:59 PM 594 Views
Interesting fact of the day for you two... - 08/04/2010 02:45:15 PM 485 Views
I know - 08/04/2010 02:46:41 PM 620 Views
It was nice being a "threadkiller" of a different sort - 08/04/2010 10:08:34 PM 493 Views
Quote Pyramids of Destiny FTL *NM* - 08/04/2010 10:16:21 PM 380 Views
me being born mega rich *NM* - 07/04/2010 02:15:34 PM 498 Views
Joanie Loves Chachi. - 07/04/2010 03:42:56 PM 544 Views
worse than "afterMASH"?? *NM* - 07/04/2010 03:50:10 PM 345 Views
Worse than "Joey" ? *NM* - 07/04/2010 06:48:25 PM 367 Views
If you remember Joanie loves Chachi, you might be too old? - 08/04/2010 12:00:34 AM 472 Views
Re: I know I just did a survey, but this was too good to pass up. - 07/04/2010 09:04:02 PM 494 Views
Science getting on the ball in the 40's and making superhumans *NM* - 08/04/2010 05:31:34 AM 421 Views
The spread of peanut butter and jelly. - 08/04/2010 07:12:21 AM 642 Views
The Bread of Christianity. - 08/04/2010 07:12:51 AM 630 Views
The dead of Christianity. - 08/04/2010 07:13:34 AM 621 Views
The thread of Christianity. - 08/04/2010 07:14:15 AM 561 Views
The head of [Roman Catholic] Christianity. - 08/04/2010 07:15:21 AM 600 Views
You completely missed the "pick 1" part of the question, didn't you? *NM* - 08/04/2010 09:26:23 AM 375 Views
Well, techinically, I never said that you couldn't make multible posts, each discussing 1 thing. *NM* - 08/04/2010 05:36:37 PM 351 Views
I'm fairly sure he was just mocking someone's earlier post "just thought it would be interesting..." *NM* - 08/04/2010 08:06:56 PM 352 Views
I'm pretty sure of that too. *NM* - 08/04/2010 08:33:46 PM 356 Views
...it's pretty interesting *NM* - 08/04/2010 08:35:47 PM 418 Views
just as you thought it would be? *NM* - 08/04/2010 08:44:49 PM 351 Views
My parody. - 08/04/2010 10:41:29 PM 574 Views
Re: My parody. - 09/04/2010 07:29:19 AM 652 Views
The 1987 Rugby World Cup Final - 13/04/2010 12:23:17 PM 652 Views

Reply to Message