Active Users:2353 Time:18/06/2026 10:04:54 AM
I'm really sleep deprived... Larry Send a noteboard - 08/04/2010 02:13:20 PM
What if black pepper had been an indigenous plant in Europe and/or the Middle East? Not only does that impact a small but important part of medieval trade - the most long-distance one - but it also is of crucial importance to the European discovery journeys of the 15th, 16th and 17th centuries, and hence to the entire concept of colonialism.


Or what if potatoes or tobacco had not been imported from South America.


Tobacco was from North America/the Caribbean, or at least the specific species that are smoked by most people :P

Of course, if tobacco was not a cash crop, my family would never have been wealthy in the early 19th century (nor would they have lost most everything between the Panic of 1837 and the Civil War :P)


Yesyes. Details. I come from Norway. Everywhere that is warm enough for tobacco growing is per definition SOUTH.

And, of course, part of the scenario would have to be that it were never grown by European immigrants either.


It's okay. I always think "up there" for any region where snow lies on the ground more than a handful of days a year, if that much. :P

And then there's that scenario if Songhai had not been weakened by invasions from the Sahara...


Now you are back on political history.


I consider the social vacuum created by the collapse of a strong polity in the Sahel to be responsible in part for the atrocity known as the transatlantic slave trade. The social upheaval that was unleashed is something that certainly affects hundreds of millions directly and almost as many indirectly today.

That being said, some of my vocabulary would have been different if this hadn't taken place.


But that is the case with most of the political events mentioned in this thread. The interest lies in the social ramifications. The collapse of a major African kingdom is definitely a political event.


Of course, I like to think my old studies, grounded firmly in the late Weimar/pre-WWII Nazi Era, were not political in nature, although that contradictory regime certainly loomed large over everything I was researching about religious programs during that time :P


I have always preferred political history. I think that is why I did not keep studying it. It became all about fishermen and farmers, and I couldn't care less. I like the wars and revolutions and the intrigues much more than the statistics and boring. In theory social history is good, but in practice it puts me to sleep.


While it draws upon some of the same methodologies as new social history, the areas of research are much more fascinating. Ever read Carlo Ginzburg's The Cheese and the Worms: The Cosmology of a 16th Century Miller? Still one of the best microhistories produced and it dealt with a relatively educated heretic who devised a cosmology that both fit in with his times and ran very counter to it. I had to read that in my freshman honors Western Civ class and that book convinced me that I was in the right field. Also, cultural histories yielded interesting discussions about English wife swaps and "sales," some of which lasted until the late 19th century. How can stuffy political maneuverings top that? :P


Oh, I don't mind cultural history when it centers on individuals, but because there is often so little to latch on to when it comes to illiterate farmers and fishermen (which Norwegian history has to deal with for most of its ... history), it all becomes numbers. And numbers do not work in my brain.

You should review that book properly and convince me to read it :P


I don't know if I still have my freshman paper on that book or not. I did keep most of my papers to use as guides of what to and what not to do in writing the next paper :P

Maybe when I'm done with cataloging my books next week, I'll re-read it and write a commentary. And you should look into the pardon requests that were penned for illiterate French peasants in the 16th and 17th centuries. Natalie Zemon Davis wrote a nice book on those.


I'll get to it right after I finish reading Simone Bertière's books on French queens.


At first, I thought you were talking about reading about French transvestites :O

;)
Illusions fall like the husk of a fruit, one after another, and the fruit is experience. - Narrator, Sylvie

Je suis méchant.
Reply to message
I know I just did a survey, but this was too good to pass up. - 07/04/2010 12:44:15 AM 868 Views
Myself: World War I. - 07/04/2010 12:45:57 AM 742 Views
I don't think it's that simple. - 07/04/2010 12:57:16 AM 691 Views
I see your point. - 07/04/2010 01:02:33 AM 685 Views
Sometimes sooner is better than later. - 07/04/2010 01:10:11 AM 665 Views
True. - 07/04/2010 01:14:45 AM 643 Views
True, one might even say *adding* a war there would've improved things. - 07/04/2010 01:36:07 AM 646 Views
*nods* A small war is usually preferable to a big war. - 07/04/2010 01:49:06 AM 644 Views
The Plague - 07/04/2010 12:52:33 AM 623 Views
Re: The Plague - 07/04/2010 01:05:35 AM 520 Views
Maybe; there were episodic plague epidemics before and after that time. - 07/04/2010 02:05:18 AM 683 Views
I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague - 07/04/2010 02:50:25 AM 623 Views
Re: I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague - 07/04/2010 08:45:26 PM 615 Views
I'm so glad you have the time and inclination to type up these replies. *NM* - 08/04/2010 07:09:22 AM 391 Views
...? - 08/04/2010 07:51:14 PM 529 Views
Sounds like he was thanking you for saving him the effort of writing a similar reply. *NM* - 08/04/2010 09:28:55 PM 411 Views
If that is the case, then great *NM* - 08/04/2010 09:30:51 PM 364 Views
The spread of Christianity - 07/04/2010 12:55:29 AM 701 Views
Huh. Wild to think about. *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:06:44 AM 396 Views
Re: The spread of Christianity - 07/04/2010 08:47:06 PM 519 Views
Re: The spread of Christianity - 08/04/2010 09:29:17 AM 540 Views
Why would that have an impact on Judaism? - 08/04/2010 01:40:47 PM 619 Views
Re: Why would that have an impact on Judaism? - 08/04/2010 01:42:25 PM 451 Views
But wasn't Christianity the inspiration for a whole era of art? *NM* - 08/04/2010 01:41:34 PM 486 Views
Re: But wasn't Christianity the inspiration for a whole era of art? - 08/04/2010 01:44:36 PM 669 Views
precisely. - 08/04/2010 05:37:26 PM 641 Views
sorry, didn't see that Lorraine already addressed this. *NM* - 08/04/2010 07:55:00 PM 390 Views
The Partition of India, 1947... *NM* - 07/04/2010 12:59:32 AM 393 Views
Any paticular reason why? *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:34:54 AM 393 Views
Agreed. *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:59:02 AM 511 Views
The destruction of the Great Library. - 07/04/2010 01:02:59 AM 595 Views
Internet spam sucks indeed. - 07/04/2010 01:08:23 AM 693 Views
We'll never know; makes for fascinating speculative fiction. - 07/04/2010 01:13:49 AM 646 Views
This whole topic is wild, it's something I sometimes think about. - 07/04/2010 01:17:50 AM 630 Views
Ya, that's what makes history so gripping. - 07/04/2010 01:19:54 AM 726 Views
I don't know if that's really true... - 07/04/2010 01:39:51 AM 644 Views
It wouldn't have been as sudden or extreme. - 07/04/2010 01:58:39 AM 681 Views
"Joel captures Alexandria! The Great Library is destroyed!" *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:08:35 AM 263 Views
NOOOO1111 - 07/04/2010 01:11:33 AM 556 Views
A shame. It's one of the better ones, too. *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:14:20 AM 395 Views
Not in the first two Civs. - 07/04/2010 01:22:43 AM 489 Views
Civ, i love that game... - 07/04/2010 03:01:13 AM 593 Views
Yeah that's one of the small annoying things - 07/04/2010 07:34:52 AM 484 Views
An interesting point - 07/04/2010 02:57:03 AM 651 Views
That's usually my reply to this question too *NM* - 07/04/2010 11:42:55 AM 363 Views
if the giant meteor hadn't destroyed the dinosaurs... - 07/04/2010 01:10:42 AM 559 Views
"FOR" global warming? Now there's a phrase I never thought I'd here! - 07/04/2010 01:16:04 AM 478 Views
The spread of Islam - 07/04/2010 01:26:11 AM 656 Views
oh aren't you clever. *NM* - 07/04/2010 01:47:13 AM 371 Views
There's such a thing as being right for the wrong reasons, though I'm not sure he is. - 07/04/2010 02:12:14 AM 473 Views
Wikipedia is of course not a scholarly source, but all the same... - 07/04/2010 11:57:01 AM 628 Views
Fair enough. - 07/04/2010 12:51:16 PM 617 Views
I read the Bernard Lewis article referred to at Wikipedia... - 07/04/2010 01:19:03 PM 603 Views
So it's borrowed propaganda. - 13/04/2010 09:30:39 AM 586 Views
Re: The spread of Islam - 08/04/2010 09:24:31 AM 694 Views
Haha, are you kidding? - 08/04/2010 07:59:39 PM 460 Views
Re: Haha, are you kidding? - 08/04/2010 08:50:33 PM 446 Views
Ask yourself the question... - 08/04/2010 09:33:33 PM 463 Views
I don't see the connection. - 08/04/2010 08:49:46 PM 638 Views
Re: I don't see the connection. - 08/04/2010 08:51:21 PM 502 Views
I'd better not touch this one - 07/04/2010 03:12:00 AM 669 Views
The spread of Judaism. - 07/04/2010 04:30:37 AM 594 Views
Re: The spread of Judaism. - 07/04/2010 07:31:02 AM 538 Views
I...do not know. - 07/04/2010 07:18:13 AM 526 Views
Amusing that the underlying expectation seems to be more along political history lines - 07/04/2010 12:56:49 PM 716 Views
Considering the way history is taught, is it surprising? *NM* - 08/04/2010 07:11:03 AM 354 Views
Nope, not really - 08/04/2010 10:24:54 AM 626 Views
Here's one that'll be more to your liking... - 08/04/2010 10:40:53 AM 463 Views
Yes - 08/04/2010 10:52:11 AM 604 Views
Re: Here's one that'll be more to your liking... - 08/04/2010 11:58:27 AM 498 Views
Uh... - 08/04/2010 12:11:14 PM 659 Views
Re: Uh... - 08/04/2010 12:15:20 PM 674 Views
The Devil is always in the details - 08/04/2010 12:29:25 PM 617 Views
Re: The Devil is always in the details - 08/04/2010 12:32:34 PM 408 Views
Not really - 08/04/2010 01:07:57 PM 578 Views
Re: Not really - 08/04/2010 01:10:16 PM 496 Views
Only to a degree - 08/04/2010 01:27:22 PM 595 Views
Re: Only to a degree - 08/04/2010 01:30:12 PM 703 Views
I was into cultural and religious history - 08/04/2010 01:38:24 PM 600 Views
Re: I was into cultural and religious history - 08/04/2010 01:41:31 PM 470 Views
Ha! - 08/04/2010 01:49:23 PM 629 Views
Re: Ha! - 08/04/2010 01:51:28 PM 452 Views
I'm really sleep deprived... - 08/04/2010 02:13:20 PM 749 Views
Re: I'm really sleep deprived... - 08/04/2010 02:19:07 PM 498 Views
- 08/04/2010 02:52:59 PM 602 Views
Interesting fact of the day for you two... - 08/04/2010 02:45:15 PM 494 Views
I know - 08/04/2010 02:46:41 PM 625 Views
It was nice being a "threadkiller" of a different sort - 08/04/2010 10:08:34 PM 501 Views
Quote Pyramids of Destiny FTL *NM* - 08/04/2010 10:16:21 PM 383 Views
me being born mega rich *NM* - 07/04/2010 02:15:34 PM 501 Views
Joanie Loves Chachi. - 07/04/2010 03:42:56 PM 554 Views
worse than "afterMASH"?? *NM* - 07/04/2010 03:50:10 PM 348 Views
Worse than "Joey" ? *NM* - 07/04/2010 06:48:25 PM 370 Views
If you remember Joanie loves Chachi, you might be too old? - 08/04/2010 12:00:34 AM 480 Views
Re: I know I just did a survey, but this was too good to pass up. - 07/04/2010 09:04:02 PM 497 Views
Science getting on the ball in the 40's and making superhumans *NM* - 08/04/2010 05:31:34 AM 422 Views
The spread of peanut butter and jelly. - 08/04/2010 07:12:21 AM 647 Views
The Bread of Christianity. - 08/04/2010 07:12:51 AM 638 Views
The dead of Christianity. - 08/04/2010 07:13:34 AM 629 Views
The thread of Christianity. - 08/04/2010 07:14:15 AM 570 Views
The head of [Roman Catholic] Christianity. - 08/04/2010 07:15:21 AM 604 Views
You completely missed the "pick 1" part of the question, didn't you? *NM* - 08/04/2010 09:26:23 AM 378 Views
Well, techinically, I never said that you couldn't make multible posts, each discussing 1 thing. *NM* - 08/04/2010 05:36:37 PM 353 Views
I'm fairly sure he was just mocking someone's earlier post "just thought it would be interesting..." *NM* - 08/04/2010 08:06:56 PM 355 Views
I'm pretty sure of that too. *NM* - 08/04/2010 08:33:46 PM 359 Views
...it's pretty interesting *NM* - 08/04/2010 08:35:47 PM 419 Views
just as you thought it would be? *NM* - 08/04/2010 08:44:49 PM 354 Views
My parody. - 08/04/2010 10:41:29 PM 583 Views
Re: My parody. - 09/04/2010 07:29:19 AM 663 Views
The 1987 Rugby World Cup Final - 13/04/2010 12:23:17 PM 660 Views

Reply to Message