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OK, think this one's been pretty thoroughly covered in my absence. Joel Send a noteboard - 13/04/2010 11:51:16 AM
I would make it not happen.

Rome doesn't resort to tactics which would result in their fall and the dark ages never happen. Europe doesn't go through the intellectual lull it did and religious dogma and irrationality isn't able to take over.

As a result, mankind is much further along today.


Didn't the Plauge happen several hundred years after the fall of Rome? Or am I just being an idiot and not quite getting what your saying?

In some cases, the same diseases were responsible for multiple instances of plague, and it's hard to accurately diagnose each of them hundreds or even thousands of years later. "Plague" killed Pericles and a host of others when Athens was besieged in the Peloponessian War; WHICH plague remains an open question.

I don't agree the Romes plague near the end is what killed it though; overextension and complacency during the Pax are more attractive candidates. Christian unity and the assimilation of so many "barbarian" German tribes kept Rome on life support and hid the decline for at least a century after its peak, but had the Empire been sustainable Constantinople would never have been founded.


The plague that came through Rome crippled its army, killing most of the young Roman soldiers. This eventually forced them to try and assimilate barbarian tribes and resort to the measures that kept it on life support.

Without the plague, Rome's population might have been strong enough to sustain Roman troops and a Roman identity, instead of seeding power to outsiders.

Of course, the reason Rome fell can be debated endlessly. I'm one of those that thinks it was the plague.

Either way, if Rome hadn't fallen like it did, I think we'd be better off by a lot today. But "Have Rome not fall like it did" doesn't sound like a very good reply

Just wanted to let you know I DID read it; I always read replies, even if work and other responsibilities often mean I don't get to respond in turn as promptly as I'd like anymore. Oh, for the days when I could go back and forth in a half dozen wotmania CMB threads at once for thirty hours before collapsing in an exhausted heap then rising to re-enter the lists. On the plus side (sort of) I couldn't do that now even if I had the time.
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I know I just did a survey, but this was too good to pass up. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 12:44:15 AM 828 Views
Myself: World War I. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 12:45:57 AM 691 Views
I don't think it's that simple. Joel - 07/04/2010 12:57:16 AM 649 Views
I see your point. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:02:33 AM 638 Views
Sometimes sooner is better than later. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:10:11 AM 614 Views
True. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:14:45 AM 594 Views
True, one might even say *adding* a war there would've improved things. Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:36:07 AM 593 Views
*nods* A small war is usually preferable to a big war. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:49:06 AM 601 Views
Re: True, one might even say *adding* a war there would've improved things. snoopcester - 07/04/2010 10:48:49 AM 600 Views
I had a teacher with an interesting theory related to that LadyLorraine - 07/04/2010 12:57:49 AM 490 Views
Well, at this time, it was pretty well accepted that Russia wasn't exactly a techinical power. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:04:35 AM 436 Views
The Plague MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 12:52:33 AM 581 Views
Re: The Plague LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:05:35 AM 475 Views
He must be talking about a different plague, but I'm not sure which one, either. *NM* Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:37:32 AM 370 Views
Maybe; there were episodic plague epidemics before and after that time. Joel - 07/04/2010 02:05:18 AM 630 Views
I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 02:50:25 AM 573 Views
Re: I am talking about one of the plagues not THE plague lyringlas - 07/04/2010 08:45:26 PM 567 Views
I'm so glad you have the time and inclination to type up these replies. *NM* Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:09:22 AM 369 Views
...? lyringlas - 08/04/2010 07:51:14 PM 489 Views
Sounds like he was thanking you for saving him the effort of writing a similar reply. *NM* Legolas - 08/04/2010 09:28:55 PM 391 Views
If that is the case, then great *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 09:30:51 PM 343 Views
OK, think this one's been pretty thoroughly covered in my absence. Joel - 13/04/2010 11:51:16 AM 630 Views
The spread of Christianity LadyLorraine - 07/04/2010 12:55:29 AM 659 Views
Huh. Wild to think about. *NM* LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:06:44 AM 375 Views
Re: The spread of Christianity lyringlas - 07/04/2010 08:47:06 PM 469 Views
Re: The spread of Christianity Camilla - 08/04/2010 09:29:17 AM 489 Views
Why would that have an impact on Judaism? Kronin al'Sulc - 08/04/2010 01:40:47 PM 576 Views
Re: Why would that have an impact on Judaism? Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:42:25 PM 412 Views
But wasn't Christianity the inspiration for a whole era of art? *NM* Kronin al'Sulc - 08/04/2010 01:41:34 PM 438 Views
Re: But wasn't Christianity the inspiration for a whole era of art? Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:44:36 PM 625 Views
precisely. LadyLorraine - 08/04/2010 05:37:26 PM 603 Views
sorry, didn't see that Lorraine already addressed this. *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 07:55:00 PM 374 Views
The product of Christian inspiration was heavily Hellenistic in origin... lyringlas - 08/04/2010 07:54:12 PM 468 Views
The Partition of India, 1947... *NM* BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 12:59:32 AM 370 Views
Any paticular reason why? *NM* LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:34:54 AM 369 Views
Agreed. *NM* Kylia Skydancer - 07/04/2010 01:59:02 AM 488 Views
The destruction of the Great Library. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:02:59 AM 546 Views
Internet spam sucks indeed. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:08:23 AM 655 Views
We'll never know; makes for fascinating speculative fiction. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:13:49 AM 603 Views
This whole topic is wild, it's something I sometimes think about. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:17:50 AM 579 Views
Ya, that's what makes history so gripping. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:19:54 AM 681 Views
I don't know if that's really true... Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:39:51 AM 594 Views
It wouldn't have been as sudden or extreme. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:58:39 AM 632 Views
"Joel captures Alexandria! The Great Library is destroyed!" *NM* moondog - 07/04/2010 01:08:35 AM 243 Views
NOOOO1111 Joel - 07/04/2010 01:11:33 AM 509 Views
A shame. It's one of the better ones, too. *NM* BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 01:14:20 AM 372 Views
Not in the first two Civs. Joel - 07/04/2010 01:22:43 AM 441 Views
Civ, i love that game... MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 03:01:13 AM 554 Views
Yeah that's one of the small annoying things BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 07:34:52 AM 435 Views
An interesting point MalkierKnight - 07/04/2010 02:57:03 AM 602 Views
That's usually my reply to this question too *NM* ironclad - 07/04/2010 11:42:55 AM 344 Views
It's crazy to think that the human knowledge base doubles every 2 years... lyringlas - 07/04/2010 08:49:28 PM 440 Views
Literacy and communication have literally made a world of difference. Joel - 13/04/2010 09:25:45 AM 539 Views
if the giant meteor hadn't destroyed the dinosaurs... moondog - 07/04/2010 01:10:42 AM 508 Views
"FOR" global warming? Now there's a phrase I never thought I'd here! LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 01:16:04 AM 432 Views
The spread of Islam Dragonsoul - 07/04/2010 01:26:11 AM 610 Views
oh aren't you clever. *NM* LadyLorraine - 07/04/2010 01:47:13 AM 353 Views
There's such a thing as being right for the wrong reasons, though I'm not sure he is. Joel - 07/04/2010 02:12:14 AM 419 Views
Wikipedia is of course not a scholarly source, but all the same... Legolas - 07/04/2010 11:57:01 AM 577 Views
Fair enough. Joel - 07/04/2010 12:51:16 PM 572 Views
I read the Bernard Lewis article referred to at Wikipedia... Legolas - 07/04/2010 01:19:03 PM 556 Views
So it's borrowed propaganda. Joel - 13/04/2010 09:30:39 AM 538 Views
Re: The spread of Islam Camilla - 08/04/2010 09:24:31 AM 648 Views
Haha, are you kidding? Dragonsoul - 08/04/2010 07:59:39 PM 412 Views
Re: Haha, are you kidding? Camilla - 08/04/2010 08:50:33 PM 402 Views
Ask yourself the question... Legolas - 08/04/2010 09:33:33 PM 413 Views
I don't see the connection. BlackAdder - 08/04/2010 08:49:46 PM 600 Views
Re: I don't see the connection. Camilla - 08/04/2010 08:51:21 PM 457 Views
I'd better not touch this one ßelals Girl - 07/04/2010 03:12:00 AM 626 Views
The spread of Judaism. Great Lord of Chaos - 07/04/2010 04:30:37 AM 546 Views
Re: The spread of Judaism. BlackAdder - 07/04/2010 07:31:02 AM 490 Views
I...do not know. Spriteling - 07/04/2010 07:18:13 AM 481 Views
A lot of times, you change one thing, and everything changes- even the things you don't think about. LordPerrin - 07/04/2010 12:26:51 PM 449 Views
Amusing that the underlying expectation seems to be more along political history lines Larry - 07/04/2010 12:56:49 PM 667 Views
Considering the way history is taught, is it surprising? *NM* Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:11:03 AM 332 Views
Nope, not really Larry - 08/04/2010 10:24:54 AM 578 Views
Here's one that'll be more to your liking... Legolas - 08/04/2010 10:40:53 AM 421 Views
Yes Larry - 08/04/2010 10:52:11 AM 555 Views
Re: Here's one that'll be more to your liking... Camilla - 08/04/2010 11:58:27 AM 448 Views
Uh... Larry - 08/04/2010 12:11:14 PM 609 Views
Re: Uh... Camilla - 08/04/2010 12:15:20 PM 621 Views
The Devil is always in the details Larry - 08/04/2010 12:29:25 PM 577 Views
Re: The Devil is always in the details Camilla - 08/04/2010 12:32:34 PM 369 Views
Not really Larry - 08/04/2010 01:07:57 PM 537 Views
Re: Not really Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:10:16 PM 453 Views
Only to a degree Larry - 08/04/2010 01:27:22 PM 546 Views
Re: Only to a degree Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:30:12 PM 660 Views
I was into cultural and religious history Larry - 08/04/2010 01:38:24 PM 551 Views
Re: I was into cultural and religious history Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:41:31 PM 433 Views
Ha! Larry - 08/04/2010 01:49:23 PM 586 Views
Re: Ha! Camilla - 08/04/2010 01:51:28 PM 415 Views
I'm really sleep deprived... Larry - 08/04/2010 02:13:20 PM 704 Views
Re: I'm really sleep deprived... Camilla - 08/04/2010 02:19:07 PM 465 Views
Camilla - 08/04/2010 02:52:59 PM 553 Views
Interesting fact of the day for you two... Legolas - 08/04/2010 02:45:15 PM 453 Views
I know Camilla - 08/04/2010 02:46:41 PM 585 Views
It was nice being a "threadkiller" of a different sort Larry - 08/04/2010 10:08:34 PM 457 Views
Quote Pyramids of Destiny FTL *NM* BlackAdder - 08/04/2010 10:16:21 PM 359 Views
Since, surprisingly, no one's pointed it out yet, prehistory/=history. Joel - 13/04/2010 09:52:19 AM 552 Views
me being born mega rich *NM* random thoughts - 07/04/2010 02:15:34 PM 448 Views
Joanie Loves Chachi. Tigr - 07/04/2010 03:42:56 PM 508 Views
worse than "afterMASH"?? *NM* moondog - 07/04/2010 03:50:10 PM 327 Views
Worse than "Joey" ? *NM* TaskmasterJack - 07/04/2010 06:48:25 PM 354 Views
If you remember Joanie loves Chachi, you might be too old? StarrBecca - 08/04/2010 12:00:34 AM 439 Views
Re: I know I just did a survey, but this was too good to pass up. lyringlas - 07/04/2010 09:04:02 PM 459 Views
Science getting on the ball in the 40's and making superhumans *NM* fistofpainx - 08/04/2010 05:31:34 AM 402 Views
The spread of peanut butter and jelly. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:12:21 AM 599 Views
I think two spreads that would be better to eliminate would be marmite and vegemite (sp). Avendesora - 08/04/2010 05:30:26 PM 565 Views
The Bread of Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:12:51 AM 589 Views
The dead of Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:13:34 AM 574 Views
The thread of Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:14:15 AM 526 Views
The head of [Roman Catholic] Christianity. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 07:15:21 AM 561 Views
You completely missed the "pick 1" part of the question, didn't you? *NM* Camilla - 08/04/2010 09:26:23 AM 359 Views
Well, techinically, I never said that you couldn't make multible posts, each discussing 1 thing. *NM* LordPerrin - 08/04/2010 05:36:37 PM 331 Views
I'm fairly sure he was just mocking someone's earlier post "just thought it would be interesting..." *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 08:06:56 PM 333 Views
I'm pretty sure of that too. *NM* LordPerrin - 08/04/2010 08:33:46 PM 339 Views
...it's pretty interesting *NM* lyringlas - 08/04/2010 08:35:47 PM 397 Views
just as you thought it would be? *NM* BlackAdder - 08/04/2010 08:44:49 PM 334 Views
My parody. Ghavrel - 08/04/2010 10:41:29 PM 536 Views
Re: My parody. Camilla - 09/04/2010 07:29:19 AM 613 Views
The 1987 Rugby World Cup Final Colonel Logain - 13/04/2010 12:23:17 PM 618 Views
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