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Re: I really like this analogy, but I think it's off base here. Ghavrel Send a noteboard - 24/08/2017 11:34:24 PM

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If that's all it's about, then fine. I can find hundreds of examples of 'you're not a real feminist unless...' examples, however.

Sure. But if you unpack those statements (which, generally, I think are useless and unhelpful), what you'll ultimately arrive at is "although you claim to be a feminist, the policies you support do not advance or are harmful to the feminist cause."

Again, I generally think "you aren't a real X unless" statements are useless and unhelpful, because they alienate people who are at least ostensibly on your side.


View original postWho used the popular "I'm not a feminist, I'm an egalitarian" gambit, here? Who is assuming bad faith?

I'm not accusing you of anything. When I accuse people of things, I use the second person, not the third. I'm not polite enough to be vague.

The "feminism is about equality" discussion usually comes up in response to people who dispute that and who seek to reframe feminism as being about establishing female dominance.

"We feel safe when we read what we recognise, what does not challenge our way of thinking.... a steady acceptance of pre-arranged patterns leads to the inability to question what we are told."
~Camilla

Ghavrel is Ghavrel is Ghavrel

*MySmiley*

This message last edited by Ghavrel on 24/08/2017 at 11:35:21 PM
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The purges will continue until morale improves aerocontrols - 22/08/2017 04:10:36 PM 1155 Views
I love how they cite Vasquez from Aliens as a strong female character. Cannoli - 22/08/2017 04:46:53 PM 579 Views
Not where I pictured that going... aerocontrols - 22/08/2017 07:19:46 PM 435 Views
Uh, yeah, I don't see the link. Just because he cheated on his wife doesn't make him not feminist. Legolas - 22/08/2017 06:44:28 PM 477 Views
You are not the gatekeeper, either aerocontrols - 22/08/2017 07:25:31 PM 457 Views
I strongly protest against the notion that there IS a gatekeeper. Legolas - 22/08/2017 07:39:41 PM 432 Views
I am the gatekeeper. Both of you are out. Aviendha - 22/08/2017 07:52:22 PM 503 Views
You can't kick me out! aerocontrols - 22/08/2017 07:54:30 PM 443 Views
None shall pass. Aviendha - 22/08/2017 07:57:43 PM 443 Views
yeah, yeah, yeah... aerocontrols - 22/08/2017 08:06:40 PM 444 Views
We're out of my field aerocontrols - 22/08/2017 07:53:01 PM 466 Views
Of course the real problem with the strong female action figure is the lack of real world models random thoughts - 22/08/2017 07:30:55 PM 448 Views
But is it? aerocontrols - 22/08/2017 07:45:30 PM 430 Views
An interesting thing about sci-fi is that it can plausibly eliminate sexual disparity in strength. Ghavrel - 22/08/2017 08:19:52 PM 471 Views
I take it by 'Africans', you mean 'black people'? Legolas - 22/08/2017 09:19:01 PM 461 Views
I meant Africans. The deficiency here is in my knowledge of sports records. Ghavrel - 23/08/2017 12:40:23 AM 418 Views
In longer distance races, yes. Not so much in sprinting. Legolas - 23/08/2017 07:03:14 AM 427 Views
When you are talking aliens then gender really isn't an issue random thoughts - 22/08/2017 09:42:07 PM 421 Views
Of the two female Avengers only one has super powers. random thoughts - 22/08/2017 09:46:49 PM 450 Views
*shrug* aerocontrols - 22/08/2017 09:56:20 PM 462 Views
And it bothers me that he can get nocked around like that and live random thoughts - 23/08/2017 12:29:26 AM 503 Views
No, not yours *NM* aerocontrols - 23/08/2017 12:34:13 AM 270 Views
I doubt anyone had their life changed because they were inspired but whatever his name is *NM* random thoughts - 25/08/2017 02:33:48 AM 249 Views
So that makes me wonder....What is the definition of a Feminist? Jeordam - 22/08/2017 11:20:49 PM 464 Views
A person who supports feminism. Aviendha - 22/08/2017 11:55:56 PM 529 Views
Motte and Bailey aerocontrols - 24/08/2017 10:22:03 PM 526 Views
? Aviendha - 24/08/2017 10:34:34 PM 543 Views
The argument is aerocontrols - 24/08/2017 11:03:19 PM 450 Views
I think people have different ideas of how to reach equality, some of which are stupid Aviendha - 24/08/2017 11:28:31 PM 494 Views
Well, ok aerocontrols - 25/08/2017 12:19:24 AM 452 Views
Men! Aviendha - 25/08/2017 09:28:21 AM 521 Views
I really like this analogy, but I think it's off base here. Ghavrel - 24/08/2017 10:36:31 PM 455 Views
Re: I really like this analogy, but I think it's off base here. aerocontrols - 24/08/2017 11:01:15 PM 518 Views
Re: I really like this analogy, but I think it's off base here. Ghavrel - 24/08/2017 11:34:24 PM 468 Views
Re: I really like this analogy, but I think it's off base here. aerocontrols - 25/08/2017 12:28:58 AM 491 Views
Re: I really like this analogy, but I think it's off base here. Ghavrel - 25/08/2017 03:33:53 AM 439 Views
Sometimes 'real' is the right word, though aerocontrols - 25/08/2017 03:01:16 PM 474 Views
Well, sure. There's no dispute over their beliefs there, though. Ghavrel - 25/08/2017 04:03:47 PM 485 Views
all the social justice people hide from one reality random thoughts - 25/08/2017 03:40:51 PM 453 Views
That's the equity/equality distinction. Ghavrel - 25/08/2017 04:01:10 PM 423 Views
See, but it's the same thing.... Jeordam - 25/08/2017 05:22:50 PM 546 Views
Are you ok giving a rich black person advantages over a poor white one? random thoughts - 25/08/2017 05:41:58 PM 473 Views
It's not just a black/white issue aerocontrols - 25/08/2017 05:45:17 PM 526 Views
Really? Jeordam - 25/08/2017 06:16:14 PM 466 Views
Affirmative action is illegal for public universities in California aerocontrols - 25/08/2017 06:44:38 PM 512 Views
That is an affect of their score not of racial bias random thoughts - 28/08/2017 02:32:02 PM 465 Views
That's really not what "modern liberal social justice" thinks. Ghavrel - 28/08/2017 06:41:32 AM 382 Views
It may not be what they intend but they ignore the real world consequences random thoughts - 28/08/2017 02:25:23 PM 525 Views
Re: That's really not what "modern liberal social justice" thinks. aerocontrols - 28/08/2017 03:02:42 PM 514 Views
Only very briefly as I head off to work. Ghavrel - 28/08/2017 04:07:42 PM 377 Views
Well, I can see you're busy aerocontrols - 28/08/2017 04:36:55 PM 481 Views
All else being equal, yes. But that's sometimes difficult to visualize. Ghavrel - 29/08/2017 03:56:56 AM 517 Views
How about a kid who's family endows one or more chairs? Or built the new gym? *NM* damookster - 29/08/2017 05:45:29 AM 246 Views
That's not "all else being equal." *NM* Ghavrel - 29/08/2017 05:35:13 PM 321 Views
I prefer Mott The Hoople *NM* damookster - 24/08/2017 10:42:00 PM 241 Views
Oh look; a bunch of dudes discussing feminism! *NM* Aviendha - 22/08/2017 11:49:25 PM 281 Views
Just let us know if you need any mansplaining. aerocontrols - 23/08/2017 12:08:55 AM 409 Views
Someone needs to bring some rationality and logic to the topic. *NM* Cannoli - 23/08/2017 01:28:16 AM 245 Views
And, I thought it was "if you believe men & women are equal, you're a feminist!" *NM* Cannoli - 23/08/2017 01:29:24 AM 238 Views
I don't know if you've noticed, but... Legolas - 23/08/2017 07:05:10 AM 428 Views
Well Aviendha - 23/08/2017 09:02:28 AM 507 Views
I tried nossy - 23/08/2017 11:41:00 AM 500 Views
It's odd Aviendha - 23/08/2017 12:08:34 PM 511 Views
Lol, I wondered how you fit in over here. nossy - 23/08/2017 12:26:05 PM 508 Views
Urban Minnesota is a bit of a haven, too. Plus we have agreeable weather with four seasons! Hieshyn - 23/08/2017 09:29:33 PM 481 Views
Pft, I've seen your mosquitos! *NM* nossy - 24/08/2017 12:57:03 AM 259 Views
This year has been very mild. I think they're going the Way of the Bee. *NM* Hieshyn - 24/08/2017 11:26:10 PM 304 Views
Uhoh nossy - 24/08/2017 11:47:16 PM 487 Views
Nope. Those bastards dont deserve your pity. They are parasites. Hieshyn - 25/08/2017 01:44:45 AM 470 Views
ANYWAY Aviendha - 25/08/2017 09:30:31 AM 447 Views
Yes the virtues of having both extremes of weather random thoughts - 25/08/2017 02:31:38 AM 463 Views
Hey! nossy - 25/08/2017 10:41:16 AM 419 Views
Special rights don't lead to equality. *NM* random thoughts - 23/08/2017 12:14:12 PM 251 Views
Is it even considered possible for cisgender men to be feminist? damookster - 23/08/2017 12:48:28 AM 415 Views
In this particular case, the feminists would appear to have a legitimate point Cannoli - 23/08/2017 02:54:46 AM 532 Views
So in the end, Joss Wheldon is nothing more than the stereotypical Hollywood producer damookster - 23/08/2017 03:48:40 AM 513 Views
So he is a lot like Bil Clinton only with no Hillary to take the women out for him? *NM* random thoughts - 25/08/2017 01:16:11 PM 252 Views
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