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Re: I really like this analogy, but I think it's off base here. Ghavrel Send a noteboard - 24/08/2017 11:34:24 PM

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If that's all it's about, then fine. I can find hundreds of examples of 'you're not a real feminist unless...' examples, however.

Sure. But if you unpack those statements (which, generally, I think are useless and unhelpful), what you'll ultimately arrive at is "although you claim to be a feminist, the policies you support do not advance or are harmful to the feminist cause."

Again, I generally think "you aren't a real X unless" statements are useless and unhelpful, because they alienate people who are at least ostensibly on your side.


View original postWho used the popular "I'm not a feminist, I'm an egalitarian" gambit, here? Who is assuming bad faith?

I'm not accusing you of anything. When I accuse people of things, I use the second person, not the third. I'm not polite enough to be vague.

The "feminism is about equality" discussion usually comes up in response to people who dispute that and who seek to reframe feminism as being about establishing female dominance.

"We feel safe when we read what we recognise, what does not challenge our way of thinking.... a steady acceptance of pre-arranged patterns leads to the inability to question what we are told."
~Camilla

Ghavrel is Ghavrel is Ghavrel

*MySmiley*

This message last edited by Ghavrel on 24/08/2017 at 11:35:21 PM
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The purges will continue until morale improves aerocontrols - 22/08/2017 04:10:36 PM 1263 Views
I love how they cite Vasquez from Aliens as a strong female character. Cannoli - 22/08/2017 04:46:53 PM 662 Views
Not where I pictured that going... aerocontrols - 22/08/2017 07:19:46 PM 530 Views
Uh, yeah, I don't see the link. Just because he cheated on his wife doesn't make him not feminist. Legolas - 22/08/2017 06:44:28 PM 550 Views
You are not the gatekeeper, either aerocontrols - 22/08/2017 07:25:31 PM 534 Views
I strongly protest against the notion that there IS a gatekeeper. Legolas - 22/08/2017 07:39:41 PM 522 Views
I am the gatekeeper. Both of you are out. Aviendha - 22/08/2017 07:52:22 PM 578 Views
You can't kick me out! aerocontrols - 22/08/2017 07:54:30 PM 538 Views
None shall pass. Aviendha - 22/08/2017 07:57:43 PM 518 Views
yeah, yeah, yeah... aerocontrols - 22/08/2017 08:06:40 PM 515 Views
We're out of my field aerocontrols - 22/08/2017 07:53:01 PM 540 Views
Of course the real problem with the strong female action figure is the lack of real world models random thoughts - 22/08/2017 07:30:55 PM 532 Views
But is it? aerocontrols - 22/08/2017 07:45:30 PM 521 Views
An interesting thing about sci-fi is that it can plausibly eliminate sexual disparity in strength. Ghavrel - 22/08/2017 08:19:52 PM 555 Views
I take it by 'Africans', you mean 'black people'? Legolas - 22/08/2017 09:19:01 PM 530 Views
I meant Africans. The deficiency here is in my knowledge of sports records. Ghavrel - 23/08/2017 12:40:23 AM 505 Views
In longer distance races, yes. Not so much in sprinting. Legolas - 23/08/2017 07:03:14 AM 521 Views
When you are talking aliens then gender really isn't an issue random thoughts - 22/08/2017 09:42:07 PM 498 Views
Of the two female Avengers only one has super powers. random thoughts - 22/08/2017 09:46:49 PM 538 Views
*shrug* aerocontrols - 22/08/2017 09:56:20 PM 537 Views
And it bothers me that he can get nocked around like that and live random thoughts - 23/08/2017 12:29:26 AM 587 Views
No, not yours *NM* aerocontrols - 23/08/2017 12:34:13 AM 311 Views
I doubt anyone had their life changed because they were inspired but whatever his name is *NM* random thoughts - 25/08/2017 02:33:48 AM 288 Views
So that makes me wonder....What is the definition of a Feminist? Jeordam - 22/08/2017 11:20:49 PM 577 Views
A person who supports feminism. Aviendha - 22/08/2017 11:55:56 PM 621 Views
Motte and Bailey aerocontrols - 24/08/2017 10:22:03 PM 604 Views
? Aviendha - 24/08/2017 10:34:34 PM 655 Views
The argument is aerocontrols - 24/08/2017 11:03:19 PM 533 Views
I think people have different ideas of how to reach equality, some of which are stupid Aviendha - 24/08/2017 11:28:31 PM 597 Views
Well, ok aerocontrols - 25/08/2017 12:19:24 AM 521 Views
Men! Aviendha - 25/08/2017 09:28:21 AM 602 Views
I really like this analogy, but I think it's off base here. Ghavrel - 24/08/2017 10:36:31 PM 528 Views
Re: I really like this analogy, but I think it's off base here. aerocontrols - 24/08/2017 11:01:15 PM 599 Views
Re: I really like this analogy, but I think it's off base here. Ghavrel - 24/08/2017 11:34:24 PM 564 Views
Re: I really like this analogy, but I think it's off base here. aerocontrols - 25/08/2017 12:28:58 AM 586 Views
Re: I really like this analogy, but I think it's off base here. Ghavrel - 25/08/2017 03:33:53 AM 508 Views
Sometimes 'real' is the right word, though aerocontrols - 25/08/2017 03:01:16 PM 563 Views
Well, sure. There's no dispute over their beliefs there, though. Ghavrel - 25/08/2017 04:03:47 PM 575 Views
all the social justice people hide from one reality random thoughts - 25/08/2017 03:40:51 PM 534 Views
That's the equity/equality distinction. Ghavrel - 25/08/2017 04:01:10 PM 509 Views
See, but it's the same thing.... Jeordam - 25/08/2017 05:22:50 PM 623 Views
Are you ok giving a rich black person advantages over a poor white one? random thoughts - 25/08/2017 05:41:58 PM 563 Views
It's not just a black/white issue aerocontrols - 25/08/2017 05:45:17 PM 601 Views
Really? Jeordam - 25/08/2017 06:16:14 PM 552 Views
Affirmative action is illegal for public universities in California aerocontrols - 25/08/2017 06:44:38 PM 588 Views
That is an affect of their score not of racial bias random thoughts - 28/08/2017 02:32:02 PM 555 Views
That's really not what "modern liberal social justice" thinks. Ghavrel - 28/08/2017 06:41:32 AM 460 Views
It may not be what they intend but they ignore the real world consequences random thoughts - 28/08/2017 02:25:23 PM 615 Views
Re: That's really not what "modern liberal social justice" thinks. aerocontrols - 28/08/2017 03:02:42 PM 596 Views
Only very briefly as I head off to work. Ghavrel - 28/08/2017 04:07:42 PM 464 Views
Well, I can see you're busy aerocontrols - 28/08/2017 04:36:55 PM 559 Views
All else being equal, yes. But that's sometimes difficult to visualize. Ghavrel - 29/08/2017 03:56:56 AM 597 Views
How about a kid who's family endows one or more chairs? Or built the new gym? *NM* damookster - 29/08/2017 05:45:29 AM 289 Views
That's not "all else being equal." *NM* Ghavrel - 29/08/2017 05:35:13 PM 347 Views
I prefer Mott The Hoople *NM* damookster - 24/08/2017 10:42:00 PM 280 Views
Oh look; a bunch of dudes discussing feminism! *NM* Aviendha - 22/08/2017 11:49:25 PM 322 Views
Just let us know if you need any mansplaining. aerocontrols - 23/08/2017 12:08:55 AM 476 Views
Someone needs to bring some rationality and logic to the topic. *NM* Cannoli - 23/08/2017 01:28:16 AM 278 Views
And, I thought it was "if you believe men & women are equal, you're a feminist!" *NM* Cannoli - 23/08/2017 01:29:24 AM 276 Views
I don't know if you've noticed, but... Legolas - 23/08/2017 07:05:10 AM 509 Views
Well Aviendha - 23/08/2017 09:02:28 AM 587 Views
I tried nossy - 23/08/2017 11:41:00 AM 585 Views
It's odd Aviendha - 23/08/2017 12:08:34 PM 585 Views
Lol, I wondered how you fit in over here. nossy - 23/08/2017 12:26:05 PM 603 Views
Urban Minnesota is a bit of a haven, too. Plus we have agreeable weather with four seasons! Hieshyn - 23/08/2017 09:29:33 PM 578 Views
Pft, I've seen your mosquitos! *NM* nossy - 24/08/2017 12:57:03 AM 297 Views
This year has been very mild. I think they're going the Way of the Bee. *NM* Hieshyn - 24/08/2017 11:26:10 PM 342 Views
Uhoh nossy - 24/08/2017 11:47:16 PM 589 Views
Nope. Those bastards dont deserve your pity. They are parasites. Hieshyn - 25/08/2017 01:44:45 AM 552 Views
ANYWAY Aviendha - 25/08/2017 09:30:31 AM 519 Views
Yes the virtues of having both extremes of weather random thoughts - 25/08/2017 02:31:38 AM 549 Views
Hey! nossy - 25/08/2017 10:41:16 AM 499 Views
Special rights don't lead to equality. *NM* random thoughts - 23/08/2017 12:14:12 PM 282 Views
Is it even considered possible for cisgender men to be feminist? damookster - 23/08/2017 12:48:28 AM 501 Views
In this particular case, the feminists would appear to have a legitimate point Cannoli - 23/08/2017 02:54:46 AM 616 Views
So in the end, Joss Wheldon is nothing more than the stereotypical Hollywood producer damookster - 23/08/2017 03:48:40 AM 597 Views
So he is a lot like Bil Clinton only with no Hillary to take the women out for him? *NM* random thoughts - 25/08/2017 01:16:11 PM 292 Views
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