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One thing to consider .. fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 22/01/2019 12:22:25 AM

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The polls are clear that the public as a whole is blaming Trump, and rightly, but of course it's also true that Pelosi and the Dems could end this crisis and help the affected people at any time they chose, by giving up something that's pretty insignificant in reality, however big a political symbol it may have become. They are prioritizing their political victory over those people's livelihoods, just like Trump is doing. And of course just like the British government is doing in their own crisis.

Not really sure how this is going to end, but it might take quite a while before we get to that end.


I suspect another reason the Dems aren't compromising is that this is a fairly unique situation where it's the President causing the shutdown. If you give Trump a 5 billion plus wall because he's holding federal workers hostsge, what's he going to ask for next time?

I suspect negotiations would have been underway but for Trump explicitly stating, on TV, that he'd happily take credit for the shutdown. After that, and given that this was the very first piece of legislation post their election, the Dems have no real way to say yes.

Had Trump been cleverer about this, he could have gotten his initial 1.3 billion dollar ask in exchange for the protection for Dreamers he's now offering. It's a ridiculous ask, but it might have worked. Now, I don't know. I think both sides see the humiliating defeat of the other as the only possible way to "win". That's not a standoff with a quick resolution.

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For about five minutes just now, I found myself thinking something very unusual... - 17/01/2019 08:40:46 PM 1017 Views
The second link doesn't work. *NM* - 17/01/2019 09:23:02 PM 193 Views
Thanks, it should work now. *NM* - 17/01/2019 09:30:18 PM 168 Views
I guess it depends on how you look at it.... - 17/01/2019 09:46:30 PM 355 Views
I'd have to bet on Pelosi there. - 17/01/2019 10:23:38 PM 519 Views
They're both disgusting... - 18/01/2019 02:38:55 AM 339 Views
The game "itself" (politics) is disgusting... - 18/01/2019 02:47:52 AM 339 Views
But Trump can deliver the State of the Union from the Oval Office if he wants to - 18/01/2019 03:58:08 AM 365 Views
Head deep up Trump's ass, I see - 18/01/2019 06:54:50 AM 333 Views
Presidents between Adams (1800) to Wilson (1913) delivered a written copy of the SOTU - 18/01/2019 02:28:55 PM 545 Views
That's interesting. I wasn't aware of that. - 18/01/2019 06:39:46 PM 349 Views
It can't just be delivered to the Senate. - 18/01/2019 08:18:56 PM 345 Views
Just use the Senate..... - 18/01/2019 08:18:07 PM 342 Views
It's could have been decent countermove - 18/01/2019 06:58:14 AM 393 Views
Re: It's could have been decent countermove - 18/01/2019 06:12:53 PM 362 Views
True enough. - 18/01/2019 08:19:43 PM 385 Views
you are probably correct thay it wouldn't have been covered, the media is that biased *NM* - 18/01/2019 08:52:41 PM 183 Views
Biased against what? - 18/01/2019 09:38:22 PM 315 Views
The speaker of the house leaving the country during a government shutdown? - 21/01/2019 07:25:32 PM 316 Views
That has to do with where she was going, I'd think - 21/01/2019 08:10:35 PM 539 Views
Sorry but hiding behind the troops doesn't fly - 22/01/2019 12:59:40 PM 345 Views
I kind of agree. - 21/01/2019 08:35:01 PM 411 Views
One thing to consider .. - 22/01/2019 12:22:25 AM 360 Views
Once the pain hits enough people the blame shield will get thin - 22/01/2019 01:20:42 PM 331 Views
The Dems may be over playing theri hands in the blame game - 22/01/2019 01:18:20 PM 445 Views
So what about the second link disgust you? - 18/01/2019 12:55:34 PM 343 Views
An aspect of this I hadn't thought about - 18/01/2019 09:49:24 PM 343 Views
That's kind of like saying.... - 18/01/2019 11:05:22 PM 318 Views
what I find most problematic about the proposed wall - 19/01/2019 12:24:30 AM 352 Views
That's... weird - 19/01/2019 07:29:32 PM 388 Views
apparently the government prevailed in other states, so there's precedent. - 19/01/2019 07:57:48 PM 323 Views
Fuck 'em - 19/01/2019 11:19:25 PM 358 Views
Fuck the histrionics dumbass - 20/01/2019 03:26:31 AM 348 Views
Wow. - 21/01/2019 05:08:28 PM 341 Views
They'd tie up the amount of money owed, maybe. Not the taking. - 24/01/2019 04:41:39 AM 359 Views
Sorry, it is not. - 19/01/2019 07:21:44 AM 333 Views
Wow. - 21/01/2019 05:14:11 PM 338 Views
That's it. You convinced me. - 21/01/2019 05:51:23 PM 335 Views
Wow. - 24/01/2019 06:14:15 AM 315 Views
Why are you so angry? - 22/01/2019 10:29:51 PM 322 Views
It IS kinda striking - 24/01/2019 06:21:14 AM 294 Views
Takification - like... to make tacky? *NM* - 19/01/2019 07:33:44 PM 169 Views
if anyone would know it should be you - 19/01/2019 08:05:03 PM 405 Views
I don't really work in manufacturing, but yeah - 20/01/2019 04:32:33 PM 429 Views

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