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This has been an interesting discussion, but I think it's run its course now. Legolas Send a noteboard - 07/02/2020 11:44:25 PM

I've certainly learned more about the whole thing - some from you, some from all the research I had to do. But still in my view you're just taking some leaps of faith or assumptions that I'm really not going to share without solid evidence, which there doesn't seem to be, so I don't think there's much point in continuing to argue those points. Firstly, the idea that Shokin was such a particular threat to Burisma while the others in his position weren't. And secondly that Biden was the main driver behind the position on Shokin shared by the US and EU, as opposed to the entirely plausible arguments both were regularly making in public about why they wanted him out.

And without those, all that's left is Biden's boast (rather undermined by the timeline), Shokin's blatantly self-aggrandizing claims (which are contradicted by the people in his office), and the 'Burisma wouldn't have paid Hunter Biden so much if they weren't getting something solid in return' argument. That may be enough for you, but it's not for me.


View original postThe reason that's in Ukraine and not Brussels or the US is because it's likely in any investigative materials on Burisma that might be in the MVD of Ukraine or the prosecutor's office. Burisma almost certainly destroyed whatever files were in their possession, and I doubt the Bidens would be stupid enough to engage in a bribery scheme that left a giant paper trail in the US (though stranger things have happened).

From what I've read about Hunter Biden, he's... not particularly subtle about trying to make money off his dad's name. In case you hadn't read it yet, you should enjoy the linked article - and yes, I had read that before even starting this whole debate. But although the way Joe Biden has allowed his family to mooch off his career like that for decades certainly doesn't improve my opinion of him, the sad truth is that he's not exactly alone in that regard, and it's still not proof of him being personally corrupt.
View original postAs for why it wasn't a scandal then - both parties were pretty united in their unqualified and blind support for Ukraine. I remember it. Russia may be authoritarian and bad, but Ukraine isn't really much, if at all, better. We waded right into a deep-running conflict without thinking through the consequences, and both parties were cheering it on at the time. Joe Biden could have shot someone on Kreshchatik in Kiev and no one would care, to paraphrase a famous quote.

I can give you links for high profile media like the Guardian criticizing Hunter Biden's new job at Burisma and implying shady dealings from the first moment his appointment was announced, back in 2014. If later on they could have gone further than that and shown actual crimes, I'm quite confident they would have, though you might not agree. But either way, it's a fact that his position there had been in the media spotlights from the start - which is why it would take a lot to convince me that Joe Biden could have arranged anything of importance (be it the Shokin ouster or something else) which materially helped Burisma without noticeably advancing US/EU interests, without setting off a scandal already at that time.

Not that I really dispute your point on the blind support for Ukraine at the time, certainly both parties as well as the EU turned a blind eye to the criminal activities of various Ukrainian politicians who they found useful to work with, but that's not the same as turning a blind eye to the criminal activities of the VP of the United States.

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Okay, that clears up one doubt I had. I'll clear up yours on the EU position in exchange. - 06/02/2020 12:25:39 AM 230 Views
It doesn't really clear up any doubts - 06/02/2020 06:16:53 AM 263 Views
Oh? It seems to rather undermine the basic premise of Shokin's firing being Joe Biden's move. - 06/02/2020 11:00:11 PM 275 Views
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This has been an interesting discussion, but I think it's run its course now. - 07/02/2020 11:44:25 PM 340 Views
Why do you have to go point by point? - 06/02/2020 09:29:12 PM 286 Views
Re: Russian interference - 07/02/2020 06:08:10 PM 414 Views

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