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Re: The idea is free from foreign oppression - internal freedom is, indeed, another story. aerocontrols Send a noteboard - 14/12/2023 03:13:36 PM

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There are no simple answers here - genuine democracy with guaranteed political freedoms like you describe can't be imposed from above or from outside, it has to come from within to work, and even when it does work it can still backslide towards authoritarianism as we have seen, in different ways and to different extents, in countries like Tunisia, Turkey, Hungary and perhaps in the near future even the USA.

You mentioned Iran - obviously a textbook case of the revolution against one kind of oppression leading to a different, in many ways worse, kind of oppression. But you know, the 1979 revolution wouldn't have happened if the people at that time had been genuinely free, and the new Islamic Republic wouldn't have been so hostile to the West if the West hadn't tacitly or openly supported the suppression of the Iranian people. If we truly want non-Western countries to fully embrace democracy, full political freedoms and the like, there are no magic shortcuts to achieve that but we'll have to give them the space and time to follow their own paths and make their own mistakes along the way.


I think you just made an argument against sanctioning Israel itself, or even Apartheid South Africa. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that your argument, if correct, probably proves too much.

But I guess generally you agree that a 'free Palestine' is probably going to remain shitty for the newly-'freed', unless they're the ones in power. (And maybe even that those in the West who chant the phrase in question are mostly cynics who don't care overmuch about freedom)

Hollywood has the best moral compass, because it has compassion.
This message last edited by aerocontrols on 14/12/2023 at 03:17:38 PM
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Re: What stats are you contesting, exactly? - 17/12/2023 02:34:34 PM 220 Views
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The idea is free from foreign oppression - internal freedom is, indeed, another story. - 14/12/2023 02:33:21 PM 221 Views
Re: The idea is free from foreign oppression - internal freedom is, indeed, another story. - 14/12/2023 03:13:36 PM 211 Views
Re: The idea is free from foreign oppression - internal freedom is, indeed, another story. - 14/12/2023 03:39:55 PM 214 Views
From my perspective, - 14/12/2023 04:09:31 PM 219 Views
It means free of Jews - 17/12/2023 02:41:09 PM 215 Views
Re: From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free - 14/12/2023 03:32:17 PM 220 Views
Is the point to imply that 'pre-1948' meant no Israeli state at all? - 14/12/2023 03:56:59 PM 230 Views
Exactly - 14/12/2023 04:28:01 PM 229 Views
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Hey that’s not fair! - 03/01/2024 10:51:43 PM 208 Views

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