Didn't you concur earlier that my behavior as scum and town is more or less invariant?
Isaac Send a noteboard - 21/08/2012 09:20:38 PM
and like right here too?
It is a classic move, it's called 'My opponent's arguments are moonbeams and cobwebs, I refuse to roll over and die because he's got a 'hunch'" It's classic, but it's classic normal defense, town or scum.
I don't lie about RL stuff period, I consider that out-of-game and while it would probably surprise everyone here I'm something of a byword for blunt honesty in RL. I'm pretty RBIRL, and will be busier than normal till the elections are over with and being in a swing state that might be longer than Tuesday Nov 6. There's nothing scummy about that, but its not just being busy, I've been trying to be more hands off in recent games, I've said as much before.
That is kinda true, irrelevant now, but I never really cared about who people would accuse beyond an off hope someone would come up with a case, I wanted to see who people didn't accuse or who they accused deliberately weakly. That had, in my mind, about a 50/50 chance of nailing us a target, with a fall back of being able to at least limit our damage on a possible lynch to non-aggressive townies or scum. It didn't give the scum plausible deniability though, I certainly hope it appeared to, good to know it apparently did. There's the plan by the way, we'd have had the list of who they were willing to accuse, or of who they wanted it to seem they were, and during the wrangling it would have been easier to note who dropped cases most casually, who pushed harder, etc... e.g., evidence, data, something to go off of.
I gave you that chance repeatedly, I flagged my vote as an OMGUS, you declined to really defend or pursue it, I asked you to withdraw it, you elected not to, so I plan to see you lynched. It really has nothing to do with my alignment, you should know that. Aggressive defense is what a player should do, in all cases and roles, hence I will do it regardless of my own alignment.
Why? You keep saying that but notice how no one is nodding their head in agreement. It's not selling, frankly it sounds more like you are scum, realized you'd over-played your hand and are now screwed, and you're thinking "Why didn't I aim elsewhere?".
I mean honestly, your whole initial series of arguments has a flavor of being rehearsed in your head as a scummer. It was like a litany of reasons I might be viewed, as a player rather than by alignment, as a killable target. I'm 'cocky', you say, and 'overconfident', and I 'muddy the waters', arguments that to me sound like someone coming up with arguments starting from the POV of wanting me personally dead, rather than in-game evidence of being a darksider.
So your whole argument, minus hunches, minus out-game behavior, is that having been confronted with a plateau I waded in with a minor modification to the existing plan that gave it some teeth and also had a decent chance of netting us a fish.
Again, honestly, I'd be going after you right now regardless, just on OMGUS and what I see as anti-game behavior, but I really do get a sniff of something out of place and I think you're going to be lynched as soon as Rana returns or Yuna or ? decide to flip votes.
Here's another reason why... you're at L-1... no voluntary character or roleclaim... why is that? Almost every townie RC's at L-1 territory without prodding. Scum rarely do without being asked for it.
I'm not saying it was a BAD plan- you generally try to stay as pro-town as possible, I've noticed- but it was complex, and would do very well in tracking everyone's intentions.
More to the point, look at how Isaac has acted in the last couple of days. Reducing my entire argument to "Oh, beet wants us to lynch on a hunch" is a classic move.
It is a classic move, it's called 'My opponent's arguments are moonbeams and cobwebs, I refuse to roll over and die because he's got a 'hunch'" It's classic, but it's classic normal defense, town or scum.
Here is what happened: Isaac actually did have stuff going on in real life (he rarely lies unless he has to). This meant that he wasn't going to be taking charge on the first day, and would be willing to vote for whoever.
I don't lie about RL stuff period, I consider that out-of-game and while it would probably surprise everyone here I'm something of a byword for blunt honesty in RL. I'm pretty RBIRL, and will be busier than normal till the elections are over with and being in a swing state that might be longer than Tuesday Nov 6. There's nothing scummy about that, but its not just being busy, I've been trying to be more hands off in recent games, I've said as much before.
When the game hit a plateau, he tried to create a system that would give the scum very good plausible deniability (the whole "everyone gets 3 votes" thing).
That is kinda true, irrelevant now, but I never really cared about who people would accuse beyond an off hope someone would come up with a case, I wanted to see who people didn't accuse or who they accused deliberately weakly. That had, in my mind, about a 50/50 chance of nailing us a target, with a fall back of being able to at least limit our damage on a possible lynch to non-aggressive townies or scum. It didn't give the scum plausible deniability though, I certainly hope it appeared to, good to know it apparently did. There's the plan by the way, we'd have had the list of who they were willing to accuse, or of who they wanted it to seem they were, and during the wrangling it would have been easier to note who dropped cases most casually, who pushed harder, etc... e.g., evidence, data, something to go off of.
Things progressed as normal, with no real candidate coming into focus, until I accused him. He then seized on this, whereas if he was town he'd be more likely to have the attitude of "beet is well-intentioned but misguided."
I gave you that chance repeatedly, I flagged my vote as an OMGUS, you declined to really defend or pursue it, I asked you to withdraw it, you elected not to, so I plan to see you lynched. It really has nothing to do with my alignment, you should know that. Aggressive defense is what a player should do, in all cases and roles, hence I will do it regardless of my own alignment.
I realize the "I wouldn't do this if I was scum" argument can be suspect, but it's not in this case. Isaac uses the example of minor tactical mistakes, but this has been pretty much my entire talking point for my last dozen posts. If I was a scum, I would have backed off long ago.
Why? You keep saying that but notice how no one is nodding their head in agreement. It's not selling, frankly it sounds more like you are scum, realized you'd over-played your hand and are now screwed, and you're thinking "Why didn't I aim elsewhere?".
I mean honestly, your whole initial series of arguments has a flavor of being rehearsed in your head as a scummer. It was like a litany of reasons I might be viewed, as a player rather than by alignment, as a killable target. I'm 'cocky', you say, and 'overconfident', and I 'muddy the waters', arguments that to me sound like someone coming up with arguments starting from the POV of wanting me personally dead, rather than in-game evidence of being a darksider.
So your whole argument, minus hunches, minus out-game behavior, is that having been confronted with a plateau I waded in with a minor modification to the existing plan that gave it some teeth and also had a decent chance of netting us a fish.
Again, honestly, I'd be going after you right now regardless, just on OMGUS and what I see as anti-game behavior, but I really do get a sniff of something out of place and I think you're going to be lynched as soon as Rana returns or Yuna or ? decide to flip votes.
Here's another reason why... you're at L-1... no voluntary character or roleclaim... why is that? Almost every townie RC's at L-1 territory without prodding. Scum rarely do without being asked for it.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
Chaos in Champignac - Day 1
23/07/2012 10:15:29 PM
- 2930 Views
Spirou and Fantasio? *NM*
23/07/2012 11:02:28 PM
- 824 Views
How'd you figure? *NM*
25/07/2012 01:53:18 PM
- 889 Views
Champignac stuck in my mind probably, then I googled it
25/07/2012 02:33:41 PM
- 1446 Views
I wouldn't have recognized Champignac at all
25/07/2012 03:59:29 PM
- 1453 Views
You probably don't have friends who pronounce Champagne 'Cham pag Knee'
25/07/2012 04:22:09 PM
- 1589 Views

I haven't read these comics since I was in elementary school. *NM*
24/07/2012 02:15:09 AM
- 866 Views
Can't say I've ever even heard of them... *NM*
24/07/2012 05:45:12 PM
- 1019 Views
They're French comics.
24/07/2012 10:01:34 PM
- 1383 Views
Belgian, thank you very much.
25/07/2012 07:09:49 PM
- 1514 Views

Speak of the devil
25/07/2012 08:36:15 PM
- 1362 Views

What, you didn't know about that function?
25/07/2012 09:33:35 PM
- 1528 Views
Re: What, you didn't know about that function?
25/07/2012 10:09:31 PM
- 1425 Views
All the more reason for me to request it, then.
25/07/2012 11:28:49 PM
- 1761 Views

Re: All the more reason for me to request it, then.
26/07/2012 12:03:18 AM
- 1362 Views

Hm, I don't remember that. But it's possible.
26/07/2012 08:22:53 PM
- 1540 Views
I shall endeavour to keep that in mind.
26/07/2012 03:15:32 AM
- 1442 Views
And you wonder why the rest of Canada finds you so arrogant?
26/07/2012 08:32:16 PM
- 1458 Views

I was not aware that the rest of Canada was capable of greater specificity
.
27/07/2012 07:19:16 AM
- 1460 Views

Neat. Well, I know next to nothing about Tintin
25/07/2012 04:14:26 AM
- 1669 Views
Some background to Spirou and Fantasio
25/07/2012 09:00:05 AM
- 1670 Views
Ah, OK, I assumed it was Tintin from other comments. Thanks. *NM*
25/07/2012 03:13:14 PM
- 946 Views
Hi, I know very little about the setting as well. Also, RBIRL until Monday. *NM*
25/07/2012 08:27:53 PM
- 992 Views
ok, so thoughts?
26/07/2012 10:21:03 AM
- 1518 Views
Stare at each other suspiciously, until we suddenly turn on someone with the first hint of weakness? *NM*
26/07/2012 03:36:15 PM
- 1009 Views
Although that does sound tempting, I'm sure there are other options
26/07/2012 07:32:39 PM
- 1412 Views
Re: Although that does sound tempting, I'm sure there are other options
29/07/2012 03:47:04 PM
- 1402 Views
*poke, poke, poke*
28/07/2012 12:14:41 PM
- 1602 Views
Re: *poke, poke, poke*
29/07/2012 09:17:04 PM
- 1711 Views
Indeed. Beware the wrath of the moderator!
29/07/2012 10:58:55 PM
- 1404 Views
Ah yes, apologies about that
.
30/07/2012 02:41:26 AM
- 1401 Views

Any reason why? *NM*
30/07/2012 03:28:48 AM
- 979 Views
He hasn't posted in a week.
30/07/2012 07:13:39 AM
- 1365 Views
What? No discussion of the alternatives either Isaac or me proposed?
30/07/2012 08:48:20 AM
- 1462 Views
I think as small as we are I might prefer lynch over modkill, since a modkill will LyLo us
30/07/2012 05:01:06 PM
- 1451 Views
Gee, since everybody else is quiet
31/07/2012 10:31:21 AM
- 1403 Views
Re: Gee, since everybody else is quiet
01/08/2012 02:44:17 AM
- 1398 Views
Interesting indeed.
01/08/2012 02:01:43 PM
- 1544 Views
Meh. Combination of First Day Ennui and me not knowing the setting/characters
02/08/2012 07:41:22 PM
- 1461 Views
I don't see the point of this.
02/08/2012 11:43:56 AM
- 1380 Views
Re: Gee, since everybody else is quiet
04/08/2012 09:53:26 AM
- 1441 Views
Oh, and Yuna, you can go next *NM*
04/08/2012 09:55:04 AM
- 730 Views
Unvote and Vote: Yunalesca
08/08/2012 08:23:52 AM
- 1365 Views
RBIRL *NM*
02/08/2012 03:52:27 AM
- 777 Views
Still RBIRL
05/08/2012 11:57:19 PM
- 1383 Views
Your thoughts expressed, you feel the chill recede. If only others followed the example, you think. *NM*
06/08/2012 01:00:07 AM
- 758 Views
You all feel a chill and think you need to express your thoughts lest something terrible happens. *NM*
05/08/2012 11:03:25 PM
- 821 Views
OK- Beet gets in the game
07/08/2012 03:32:43 AM
- 1530 Views
I'm still partial to lynching Yunalesca. *NM*
07/08/2012 06:00:08 PM
- 772 Views
I cannot support that..
08/08/2012 02:47:32 PM
- 1417 Views
I have to admit to being pretty RBIRL
09/08/2012 07:03:37 PM
- 1350 Views
I have yet to decide my stance on modkills, I didn't expect to even have to think about using them. *NM*
09/08/2012 07:12:50 PM
- 757 Views
How's our chill doing? *NM*
09/08/2012 07:32:58 PM
- 950 Views
Some of you have already warmed up, but there are people who are definately feeling very cold. *NM*
09/08/2012 07:59:10 PM
- 697 Views
Okay, time to move on...
10/08/2012 05:13:06 AM
- 1501 Views
HAHAHAHAHA
10/08/2012 09:10:44 AM
- 1574 Views
I didn't think you were asking me- you just said "let's see what beet has to say"
10/08/2012 04:09:43 PM
- 1640 Views
Well, not really a case
13/08/2012 04:15:46 PM
- 1303 Views
my answer, finally (so sorry)
10/08/2012 07:57:36 PM
- 1561 Views

I agree with you.
10/08/2012 09:15:23 PM
- 1357 Views
FT's always lynch happy
10/08/2012 10:31:07 PM
- 1307 Views
...Maybe
11/08/2012 08:54:51 AM
- 1349 Views
Re: ...Maybe
12/08/2012 05:53:51 PM
- 1432 Views
Re: ...Maybe
12/08/2012 07:22:24 PM
- 1244 Views
Normal discussion also reveals who suspects who
13/08/2012 04:12:58 PM
- 1271 Views
Four? In Finland school doesn't start until seven. *NM*
13/08/2012 06:40:13 PM
- 801 Views
A heads up, if things don't speed up, there will be time limit. *NM*
13/08/2012 06:41:00 PM
- 774 Views
Batter up!
14/08/2012 03:10:26 AM
- 1390 Views
What was the actual question anyway?
15/08/2012 01:53:57 AM
- 1329 Views
If you had to lynch someone right now, who and why? *NM*
15/08/2012 03:19:06 AM
- 770 Views
Ah, that explains it
15/08/2012 04:01:50 AM
- 1387 Views
So.
15/08/2012 01:33:36 PM
- 1412 Views
Re: So.
15/08/2012 02:54:24 PM
- 1324 Views
Vote: Fanatic-Templar
15/08/2012 06:02:54 PM
- 1268 Views
I have no such agreement, I'll point out
15/08/2012 03:45:39 PM
- 1292 Views
Vote: Beetnemesis
15/08/2012 05:16:10 PM
- 1333 Views
Hah
15/08/2012 07:57:39 PM
- 1306 Views
A hunch sufficient to cast a vote for?
15/08/2012 08:57:01 PM
- 1434 Views
...bloody-mindedness?
16/08/2012 01:29:40 AM
- 1357 Views
Or a suicidal deathwish
16/08/2012 02:07:36 AM
- 1351 Views

Well, I got the Serial Killer on day 1 last game...
16/08/2012 04:28:42 AM
- 1268 Views
Ranagrande got the serial killer on Day 1 last game, that kill is all his
16/08/2012 05:06:13 AM
- 1386 Views
Re: Ranagrande got the serial killer on Day 1 last game, that kill is all his
16/08/2012 05:51:02 AM
- 1334 Views
Re: Ranagrande got the serial killer on Day 1 last game, that kill is all his
16/08/2012 11:53:49 AM
- 1470 Views
I did forget about rana's awesome code-breaking, that's on me
16/08/2012 04:14:35 PM
- 1287 Views
Yet the demonstration of a flaw in your hunch-record doens't result in an unvote? *NM*
17/08/2012 11:28:33 PM
- 998 Views
Nope.
20/08/2012 04:01:52 PM
- 1262 Views
Never said all hunches were wrong, even coins land on tails half the time
20/08/2012 04:31:51 PM
- 1288 Views
Summary of proposed targets
16/08/2012 02:43:41 AM
- 1388 Views
Thanks for the summary
16/08/2012 06:51:29 AM
- 1364 Views
RBIRL again. Sorry.
16/08/2012 06:06:52 PM
- 1286 Views
If posting doesn't become significantly more active by monday evening, I will institute a time limit
18/08/2012 08:45:35 PM
- 1355 Views
What are we tracking as the current vote count anyway?
19/08/2012 03:44:28 AM
- 1395 Views
Re: What are we tracking as the current vote count anyway?
19/08/2012 11:17:48 AM
- 1275 Views
I unvoted from Yunalesca a while back.
19/08/2012 05:09:30 PM
- 1407 Views
Sorry, I missed that. I didn't notice the unvote above the quote box until now.
19/08/2012 08:53:31 PM
- 1354 Views
I can't believe you missed that in the first post.
19/08/2012 11:45:42 AM
- 1347 Views
eh, i'll vote where my mouth is. Vote: Fanatic-Templar *NM*
19/08/2012 10:49:35 PM
- 774 Views
Well, I gues that's SOMETHING
20/08/2012 10:51:36 AM
- 1436 Views
Then I'll join the vote against Beetnemesis.
20/08/2012 05:00:16 PM
- 1370 Views
I think you should reconsider
21/08/2012 05:18:30 AM
- 1366 Views
Well, there isn't much of a case against anyone, this is Day 1 after all.
21/08/2012 06:47:18 AM
- 1365 Views
My case isn't that I have a "hunch," it's that Isaac is acting the way he would if he was scum!
21/08/2012 08:39:11 PM
- 1732 Views
Didn't you concur earlier that my behavior as scum and town is more or less invariant?
21/08/2012 09:20:38 PM
- 1402 Views
Well, just because no one agrees with me doesn't mean I don't believe it.
22/08/2012 05:24:52 PM
- 1327 Views
Re: Well, I gues that's SOMETHING
20/08/2012 05:21:21 PM
- 1419 Views
It's not an OMGUS vote anymore, also my motives on Day 1 are typically fairly pure
21/08/2012 05:26:02 AM
- 1524 Views
What was the argument against FT, again?
20/08/2012 04:07:26 PM
- 1286 Views
I wanted to lynch Yunalesca for inactivity, and this was unkind. *NM*
20/08/2012 05:01:18 PM
- 783 Views
That wasn't the case in its entire...
20/08/2012 05:22:26 PM
- 1347 Views
Well, you can't expect me to explain the case for my own lynch in flattering terms
. *NM*
20/08/2012 08:37:27 PM
- 797 Views

Obviously you are a demon *NM*
21/08/2012 05:14:12 AM
- 838 Views
That goes without saying. But we're supposed to lynch mafia, not demons. *NM*
21/08/2012 06:25:31 AM
- 783 Views
I have returned!
22/08/2012 01:35:32 AM
- 1250 Views
Roleclaim: Fantasio, (Spirou's best friend)
22/08/2012 05:32:16 PM
- 1399 Views
Re: Roleclaim: Fantasio, (Spirou's best friend)
22/08/2012 06:17:04 PM
- 1381 Views
Unvote
22/08/2012 11:16:02 PM
- 1406 Views
Of course it does sort of bounce up against that whole 'Amnesia' thing in the intro *NM*
23/08/2012 12:31:33 AM
- 749 Views
You don't know which character you are? *NM*
23/08/2012 02:38:39 AM
- 810 Views
I don't remember saying that, I'm just wondering if we should be casually dismissing it *NM*
23/08/2012 02:41:29 AM
- 802 Views
See, I've got a slight problem with that
23/08/2012 07:52:11 AM
- 1411 Views
Hm I have no such sentence...
23/08/2012 12:36:58 PM
- 1402 Views
I don't either but I can somewhat confirm that, also Beet lied, clearly and totally
23/08/2012 05:18:41 PM
- 1427 Views
What?! Fantasio is a friend of this inventor dude, he wouldn't BE a trespasser!
24/08/2012 12:27:30 AM
- 1369 Views
Good characters being good is far more reasonable than the opposite.
24/08/2012 04:23:16 AM
- 1395 Views
6/7 or 5/7 games with named characters it was a horrible gauge
24/08/2012 05:20:23 AM
- 1533 Views
I still say those previous games are irrelevant. Here's why:
24/08/2012 05:32:55 AM
- 1408 Views
What?
23/08/2012 03:43:24 PM
- 1398 Views
And that's pretty unbelievable too
23/08/2012 07:07:35 PM
- 1300 Views
I have NEVER claimed "secret intel," and I haven't claimed a role, either
24/08/2012 12:30:08 AM
- 1422 Views
How curious.
23/08/2012 04:35:48 PM
- 1381 Views
Vote: beetnemesis
23/08/2012 08:30:33 PM
- 1451 Views
o...k, i have food poisoning and come back to this?
24/08/2012 12:58:49 AM
- 1283 Views
Because I character claimed as Fantasio, which means I am evil Fantasio
24/08/2012 01:03:06 AM
- 1538 Views
Interesting way of putting it...
24/08/2012 03:02:39 AM
- 1376 Views

Re:
Interesting way of putting it...
24/08/2012 05:45:59 AM
- 1517 Views

Re:
Interesting way of putting it...
24/08/2012 06:03:02 AM
- 1324 Views

Re:
Interesting way of putting it...
24/08/2012 07:07:29 AM
- 1415 Views

Yep, I just got back from school (didn't have time to check before it), Twilight will be up today.
24/08/2012 01:00:28 PM
- 1297 Views
Probably post-hammer so...
24/08/2012 05:58:04 AM
- 1631 Views
Wait so what exactly do you want us to do?
24/08/2012 09:19:12 PM
- 1492 Views
Any reasonable compact account
24/08/2012 10:39:31 PM
- 1347 Views
...Well memory really isn't my thing... *NM*
25/08/2012 03:51:10 AM
- 821 Views
My memory is awful, besides you write well
25/08/2012 04:12:02 AM
- 1377 Views
Hmm trying to flatter me into doing the work eh?
*NM*
25/08/2012 07:05:08 PM
- 750 Views

If it works
*NM*
25/08/2012 07:48:12 PM
- 807 Views

...It might.
25/08/2012 09:27:59 PM
- 1480 Views
Augh! I got nothing...
26/08/2012 02:43:37 AM
- 1393 Views
What about your first game or your first Mod?
27/08/2012 01:32:47 AM
- 1354 Views
I totally remember that. Napoleon, right? You guys kept accidentally posting as one another. *NM*
25/08/2012 12:31:05 AM
- 757 Views
Haha yeah that's him...
25/08/2012 03:50:38 AM
- 1393 Views
I do... That was annoying. *NM*
25/08/2012 08:49:45 AM
- 733 Views