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Re: Pretty good. Cannoli Send a noteboard - 06/09/2009 01:19:22 AM
An irony is that because of Brandon's own style, his descriptive paragraphs are actually longer than Jordan! The long opening survey of Tar Valon, for instance. Jordan would have been more succinct, perhaps much more. The grammar and prose are different, but - at least in the sample of one chapter only - Brandon defintely got the spirit of Jordan's descriptions. It reads like the way RJ uses descriptions, but written by someone else.

That's my real complaint - he's not as good with it. He's trying to describe things the way RJ does, but I don't think his vocabulary is up to it. There's cases of settling for what my teachers in grade school used to call overworked words, or falling back on the word we might use in contemporary speech, but not one that Rand would use when describing something.

Which is fine. Big fans of the prose (as I am, so is Cannoli) have undeniably lost something big (and not because Brandon isn't good, but because for it's not Jordan) but it's not something we had expected to get with AMOL after RJ died.

Well, those of us stupid enough to trust Jason did.

Reading pseudo-Robert Jordan would have been terrible, anyway. After a few chapters, when the story intensifies, that should be barely noticeable. It may get more irritating on multiple re reads, once you're less captivated by the story itself - especially full ones preceeded by 11 books by RJ.

Here's hoping.

Out of "voice" here and there, but not out of character. Nothing major. Rand pays too much attention suddenly to things he hasn't in some time, that sort of things. The only line that came off really weird to me is Cadsuane using a metaphor about painting when speaking of torture. The association felt odd in her mouth. Too Questioner-like.

Agreed. Cadsuane was the biggest problem for me. Sanderson's abuse of the pronoun "one" was grating (I kept thinking of Liza Doolittle at the racetrack), and I found her addressing Nynaeve as "child" to be gratuitous and out of character. Cadsuane would simply call her "girl." Calling someone "child" is a trick of the typical Aes Sedai, whose attitude of superiority derives entirely from her status as such. Cadsuane's attitude of superiority is subtly different, but profound - it is grounded entirely on her own qualities. She has no false modesty and knows her own worth and capabilities, and measures people by her own standards. She almost never falls back on her office as a means of garnering respect. Cadsuane is not better than you because she's Aes Sedai (or a "real" Aes Sedai), she's better than you 'cause she's Cadsuane! It might be nit-picking, but that is the difference implied in the choice of words to me. And Cadsuane doesn't stride. The use of the word stride implies physical expression of emotion completely at odds with her normal deportment. She is seldom even described as moving - stillness and calmness and unextraordinary physical activity are the hallmarks of Cadsuane's appearances. Nynaeve, Egwene, Siuan, Birgitte, Elaida, Elayne, Faile, even Moiraine can stride. Cadsuane should not, or at least not unless it is intended to convey something off or unsettling or strongly affecting her. Simply entering Rand's room is not the appropriate place for such a word.

And I realize that such things are nit-picky or perhaps too subtle to make a fuss over for most people, but these are the only sorts of things that should pass muster for the editors and publishers of WoT. If anything more serious had gone through, I would be calling for heads on platters. As it is, there are a lot of subtle problems, which add up to a dissonance in the style, but I have hopes that it will go down easier over time.

But he's doing well enough. I didn't expect Brandon to be able to study everything to the most minute details, for instance study the subtleties in the progression of Rand's voice through the books to the point he can reproduce it to perfection. He would have needed not a few months but a year or more of research and analysis to get there. Between his re read and Harriet's guidance, he's done more than well enough as it is. So Rand is not exactly as distanced as he felt from his entourage in recent books, and speaks of clothes like Elayne or Mat would do. Big deal. The plot points, the core psychology of the character are all there. That was essential, and it's there.

More or less. I don't have specifics, but I got the impression he whined more, and articulated thoughts that belonged in the background descriptions.

Totally Adam. The irony is that quite a few of those who have made those accusations don't even know their Jordan well enough to know what they're talking about (eg: saying it reads like FF because Cadsuane speaks of paintings and painters and it's barely in the series at all. Jeez. A simple keyword search show there are dozens and more references to art, painting, the new style in favour (oil on canvas)- there is a fledging 'renaissance' ongoing in fine arts in the series - RJ just mostly kept it to background descriptions or minor plot point (like Elaida commissioning a painting) etc. But it's there. Fan fiction, indeed.

Let's not go that far. I've come across some fairly horrible examples of such on the internet. I'm not exactly thrilled with what we've got so far, and Jason's blather didn't help, but I'd rather have what we're getting now, than something a few degrees closer next year. Sanderson was not going to hit his stride vocabulary-wise for years if ever, so the real problems I have would not be solved with more time to familiarize himself with the characters, even if I do think his expressed understanding of them to date has been distressingly shallow and superficial, resulting in the "off" portrayal of Cadsuane such as I described above. Even if he totally got all of that, I think his own writing style suggests I would still have problems with that sort of thing. I can't even be sure whether the Cadsuane issue is a problem of characterization or simply that he expresses the same concept in a different manner than I would understand it.

It could be worse. To wit:
1. Kevin J Anderson
2. Joe Torre (just because he craps up everything)
3. Sara DouglAss
4. No more WoT at all
5. George RR Martin (we wouldn't see aMoL OR DwD for about five more years at best)
Cannoli
"Sometimes unhinged, sometimes unfair, always entertaining"
- The Crownless

“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Deus Vult!
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Your thoughts on TGS - Chapter 1 - 05/09/2009 05:23:47 PM 6034 Views
For all of those whining about it not sounding like RJ: - 05/09/2009 05:47:07 PM 1925 Views
Agreed. If anything, it's a tribute to RJ - 05/09/2009 06:17:36 PM 1770 Views
You're forgetting one thing. - 06/09/2009 12:13:03 AM 1912 Views
And if he were to off Egwene? What would your opinion be? *NM* - 07/09/2009 05:38:36 AM 939 Views
He dislikes Sanderson's prose. Plot content is irrelevant here. *NM* - 08/09/2009 06:44:42 PM 1035 Views
Who cares? That would have been RJs decision anyway. - 09/09/2009 06:15:16 AM 1539 Views
not impressed - 05/09/2009 06:24:02 PM 1902 Views
all recap, no meat - 14/09/2009 12:33:35 PM 1536 Views
Pretty good. - 05/09/2009 07:35:41 PM 45311 Views
Re: Pretty good. - 05/09/2009 09:13:44 PM 1817 Views
Re: Pretty good. - 06/09/2009 01:19:22 AM 2115 Views
Re: Pretty good. - 06/09/2009 08:08:38 AM 1759 Views
Re: Pretty good. - 13/09/2009 01:22:22 PM 1490 Views
I found it well-written, but rather uninteresting story-wise *NM* - 05/09/2009 08:04:15 PM 1027 Views
because there should totaly be massive plot development in the first chapter - 05/09/2009 08:29:18 PM 1647 Views
I'm tired of passive story telling. - 05/09/2009 08:57:13 PM 1602 Views
On the other hand... - 05/09/2009 08:58:21 PM 1652 Views
Re: I'm tired of passive story telling. - 05/09/2009 10:42:57 PM 1543 Views
Which escape? - 05/09/2009 11:10:01 PM 1568 Views
I'm tired of mindless readers - 06/09/2009 01:54:14 AM 1683 Views
Re: I'm tired of mindless readers - 06/09/2009 04:01:56 AM 1839 Views
Your best yet Dom! *NM* - 06/09/2009 02:04:40 PM 981 Views
Re: I'm tired of mindless readers - 07/09/2009 04:39:36 AM 1555 Views
Re: I'm tired of mindless readers - 07/09/2009 10:42:29 PM 1543 Views
I was over critical. - 06/09/2009 04:56:48 AM 1479 Views
It's been happening since Book IV btw. - 16/09/2009 05:30:52 PM 1341 Views
A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 05/09/2009 09:34:44 PM 1736 Views
I think Lews Therin's comments to Rand were the most hugely significant part of the chapter. - 06/09/2009 01:15:05 AM 1512 Views
I don't really agree... - 06/09/2009 03:50:08 AM 1491 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 06/09/2009 02:52:47 AM 2149 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 06/09/2009 07:08:08 AM 1476 Views
Just answer one question... - 06/09/2009 07:53:12 AM 1970 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 06/09/2009 10:31:20 AM 2006 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 08/09/2009 10:19:13 PM 1525 Views
If I may make a few somewhat irrelevant interjections... - 09/09/2009 04:44:45 AM 1438 Views
Re: If I may make a few somewhat irrelevant interjections... - 14/09/2009 04:46:29 PM 1596 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 10/09/2009 06:20:56 AM 1751 Views
On Egwene... - 10/09/2009 04:33:58 PM 1491 Views
Nynaeve - 08/09/2009 05:43:43 AM 1598 Views
Re: Nynaeve - 08/09/2009 08:06:20 AM 1432 Views
Re: A few things that drew my attention... (this is long and rambling...spoilers) - 07/09/2009 04:41:47 AM 1590 Views
Answers, short, long and longer. - 07/09/2009 11:27:53 PM 1514 Views
I think you missed some things. (spoilers) - 16/09/2009 05:21:43 PM 1279 Views
People who still have their wotmania SNs draw mine.... - 21/09/2009 05:25:15 PM 1356 Views
Good post, but I have an alternative explanation for the saidin barrier - 28/09/2009 12:53:41 AM 1327 Views
First thought...a typo! ner vous = nervous. *NM* - 05/09/2009 09:55:28 PM 971 Views
I loved it! - 05/09/2009 10:52:17 PM 1585 Views
I didn't like the opening sequence. - 05/09/2009 10:58:17 PM 1603 Views
Robert Jordon vs Brandon Sanderson - 06/09/2009 12:02:13 AM 1544 Views
Re: Robert Jordon vs Brandon Sanderson - 06/09/2009 12:44:11 AM 1598 Views
Re: Robert Jordon vs Brandon Sanderson - 07/09/2009 09:08:21 AM 1503 Views
This is what RJ said. - 06/09/2009 12:47:26 AM 1526 Views
Re: This is what RJ said. - 06/09/2009 01:24:36 AM 1535 Views
Re: Robert Jordon vs Brandon Sanderson - 06/09/2009 05:12:25 PM 1403 Views
Re: Robert Jordon vs Brandon Sanderson - 06/09/2009 07:20:45 PM 1395 Views
Re: Robert Jordon vs Brandon Sanderson - 07/09/2009 04:05:09 AM 1429 Views
Re: Robert Jordon vs Brandon Sanderson - 07/09/2009 09:33:25 AM 1423 Views
I found it...interesting --spoilers-- - 06/09/2009 01:33:11 AM 1724 Views
Re: I found it...interesting --spoilers-- - 06/09/2009 01:42:07 AM 1593 Views
Re: I found it...interesting --spoilers-- - 06/09/2009 02:54:17 PM 1618 Views
I'm excited. (Here be spoilers) - 06/09/2009 03:29:59 AM 1477 Views
six questions and nine statements - 06/09/2009 04:47:52 AM 1547 Views
Re: Your thoughts on TGS - Chapter 1 - 06/09/2009 04:51:04 AM 1496 Views
Re: Your thoughts on TGS - Chapter 1 - 06/09/2009 07:30:53 AM 1601 Views
I liked it - 06/09/2009 07:58:09 AM 1504 Views
Some questions... - 06/09/2009 08:04:30 AM 1527 Views
Re: Some questions... - 06/09/2009 08:11:08 AM 1592 Views
Re: Some questions... - 06/09/2009 08:53:20 AM 1513 Views
Re: I liked it - 06/09/2009 09:55:41 PM 1512 Views
Theory: Rand and Egwene. What is up? - 06/09/2009 07:59:58 AM 2404 Views
Also - 06/09/2009 08:24:45 AM 1529 Views
A simpler answer - 06/09/2009 03:04:04 PM 1587 Views
Really? - 06/09/2009 03:38:59 PM 1455 Views
are we already at the location of the book cover? - 06/09/2009 11:49:06 AM 1483 Views
Re: are we already at the location of the book cover? - 06/09/2009 02:43:24 PM 1494 Views
I still think it's Aviendha - 07/09/2009 05:14:50 AM 1325 Views
Omniscient narrator not neutral enough, for one... - 06/09/2009 04:17:51 PM 1647 Views
Yip - 06/09/2009 04:29:40 PM 1572 Views
Yes... - 06/09/2009 04:39:00 PM 1447 Views
I totally agree...the narration was the biggest put-off for me - 09/09/2009 09:51:52 PM 1333 Views
Two Things - 07/09/2009 12:25:31 AM 1556 Views
Moiraine - 07/09/2009 01:19:08 AM 1626 Views
The Moiraine thing is dumb - 09/09/2009 09:53:51 PM 1497 Views
She fell through the doorway with Lanfear - 09/09/2009 10:18:55 PM 1437 Views
uh - 09/09/2009 10:57:17 PM 1487 Views
Timeline? - 07/09/2009 05:10:16 AM 1474 Views
Re: Timeline? - 07/09/2009 05:52:50 PM 1469 Views
So what chapter symbol is it going to have? *NM* - 07/09/2009 08:09:54 AM 886 Views
the dragon in COT chap 23 ornaments *NM* - 07/09/2009 01:28:58 PM 897 Views
The Seanchan are up to something - 07/09/2009 10:26:23 AM 1473 Views
Red stone doorway. - 07/09/2009 03:27:22 PM 1403 Views
The whole thing was explained by Rand in KoD. So no, not new. - 07/09/2009 06:35:01 PM 1406 Views
No - 07/09/2009 07:57:57 PM 1400 Views
Questions, Comments Thoughts and Theories about tGS - 07/09/2009 09:09:05 PM 1524 Views
My thoughts are that the main page is being crowded by too many duplicate threads - 07/09/2009 10:23:41 PM 1492 Views
Hrm... - 08/09/2009 05:28:19 AM 1565 Views
Enjoyed it - 08/09/2009 01:35:03 AM 1467 Views
Ready for More - 08/09/2009 04:25:19 PM 1529 Views
... - 08/09/2009 07:24:46 PM 1451 Views
Not sure what I expected, but not this... - 09/09/2009 04:07:10 PM 1510 Views
I know why Rand is mad at Egwene...read inside to find out - 11/09/2009 03:15:00 AM 1552 Views
It's his increasing paranoia and dehumanization. - 15/09/2009 03:03:53 AM 1470 Views
Re: Your thoughts on TGS - Chapter 1 - 16/09/2009 06:20:14 AM 1287 Views
Semirhage isn't scaring anyone - 28/09/2009 02:32:34 PM 1790 Views
Indeed... - 28/09/2009 03:36:55 PM 1398 Views
Will the Chosen pass that edict down or just not act themselves? - 28/09/2009 10:29:53 PM 1365 Views

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