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There may be a clue to this in the descriptions of astral projection in comics and psychic studies RugbyPlayingAshaman Send a noteboard - 26/05/2010 11:59:42 PM
If you could do it, there would quite literally be two different versions of you in existence at the same time. The "ethereal" you and the real you. That just boggles the mind with all the completely bizarre things that could happen as a result.


Nothing bizarre at all around it; we already know of at least one instance where a soul is disconnected from the body - the mindtrap.

It seems to me that the situation will be similar to what psychics call "entering the astral plane". In most popular conceptions or descriptions of psychic projection you project your consciousness from your body, so that you can see your body sleeping, but you yourself can travel around as a psychic entity through the real world unable to touch or move things.

The difficulty may be in returning to your body without suffering a debilitating physical shock or getting lost or trapped in the World of Dreams by a nightmare, which would destroy you while your flesh lived on without a mind or a soul to direct it.

This may be why Moghedien was terrified when they confronted two male channelers in T'A'R fighting with the One Power while in the flesh - the damage would be both spiritual and physical at the same time, making a Dreamer encountering a person's body in T'A'R
doubly threatened especially if the other person had Dreamwalking training. If Rahvin successfully turned Rand into a pig (I forget which animal it was) in T'A'R while Rand was there in the flesh, where does the illusion end? Rand not only felt himself trapped in a nightmare, but he was also physically changing - he subjected his reality to a stronger and more skilled opponents' and was almost defeated rather quickly.

This did bring up another idea though. What if you did this in reverse? What if a dreamer entered TAR in the flesh while tired, and then went to sleep while he was in TAR itself? I mean if you are there in the flesh you would presumably carry all your fleshy problems including tiredness so you could go to sleep. But since you were already in the world of dreams, where would you go? Would you go nowhere? Or in this case, would you appear in the same TAR in ethereal form and be able to mess around with your sleeping body (which was also in TAR).


I'd like to think that your spirit form can't interact with your body in any way. The main problem with TAR is that you derive neither rest nor sustenance from it - thus a Dreamer has to make themselves ready to access T'A'R and then take themselves out of that state into a normal sleep cycle to get rest. Egwene, for example, was frequently very tired upon waking after spending hours waiting for Nynaeve or Elayne because she wasn't getting real sleep. Even if your body was in T'A'R, the stress seems to be resulting from the astral projection needed to Dreamwalk. You could very well imagine yourself back into your body after being in T'A'R and find yourself doubly exhausted because your body and mind didn't get actual rest. Food doesn't sustain you in T'A'R either, because it isn't real and you could starve to death while Dreaming yourself in front of a huge feast.
"Those who think they have no time for bodily exercise will sooner or later have to find time for illness."
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Help me out with a TAR problem - 26/05/2010 08:10:07 PM 1496 Views
Re: Help me out with a TAR problem - 26/05/2010 08:28:34 PM 923 Views
No I don't mean that - 26/05/2010 08:37:27 PM 935 Views
Re: No I don't mean that - 26/05/2010 08:39:42 PM 812 Views
Re: No I don't mean that - 26/05/2010 08:52:22 PM 721 Views
I'm inclined to think the a'dam stops Dream Walking - 26/05/2010 09:26:20 PM 660 Views
Re: I'm inclined to think the a'dam stops Dream Walking - 26/05/2010 09:49:24 PM 644 Views
And it seems the woman wearing the bracelet has strange dreams too - 26/05/2010 10:54:26 PM 745 Views
Re: I'm inclined to think the a'dam stops Dream Walking - 27/05/2010 06:46:42 PM 639 Views
I think it would be the latter - 27/05/2010 07:11:17 PM 750 Views
I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. - 26/05/2010 11:39:14 PM 677 Views
I disagree - 27/05/2010 03:21:05 PM 671 Views
Re: I disagree - 27/05/2010 07:08:41 PM 718 Views
If she could enter TAR she could drag an AS in with her, compell them and make them take it off - 27/05/2010 07:14:26 PM 759 Views
Re: If she could enter TAR she could drag an AS in with her, compell them and make them take it off - 27/05/2010 09:21:11 PM 854 Views
I think we are saying pretty much the same thing here - 27/05/2010 09:24:37 PM 694 Views
We are close to the same idea, but different in where we think her ability will stop. - 27/05/2010 09:37:28 PM 692 Views
*nods* *NM* - 27/05/2010 11:29:10 PM 306 Views
But channelling is not a requirement to enter TAR - 27/05/2010 08:31:21 AM 632 Views
The a'dam affects things in Channelers other than the ability itself - 27/05/2010 01:58:34 PM 823 Views
I don't agree. - 27/05/2010 03:02:08 PM 689 Views
you are misreading me I think - 27/05/2010 03:11:50 PM 836 Views
Re: you are misreading me I think - 27/05/2010 06:30:29 PM 731 Views
Re: you are misreading me I think - 27/05/2010 06:42:36 PM 742 Views
That's the point. - 27/05/2010 06:57:35 PM 714 Views
Re: That's the point. - 27/05/2010 07:10:25 PM 681 Views
Re: That's the point. - 27/05/2010 07:16:49 PM 677 Views
We may never know! - 27/05/2010 09:21:48 PM 718 Views
I would be very surprised if it came up in the books - 27/05/2010 09:25:29 PM 683 Views
Interesting idea. - 26/05/2010 09:38:04 PM 644 Views
Fascinating Idea #4 on this thread. Thanks, Sid! *NM* - 26/05/2010 10:31:48 PM 325 Views
Channeler heal thyself - 26/05/2010 11:40:25 PM 765 Views
There may be a clue to this in the descriptions of astral projection in comics and psychic studies - 26/05/2010 11:59:42 PM 700 Views
Re: Help me out with a TAR problem - 26/05/2010 08:35:49 PM 677 Views
Doesn't work - 26/05/2010 08:37:40 PM 888 Views
we've seen this fail - 26/05/2010 08:38:06 PM 637 Views
I don't mean that - 26/05/2010 08:39:32 PM 628 Views
I'd say you either die or just wake up if you tried that - 26/05/2010 08:40:31 PM 646 Views
As far as I know... - 26/05/2010 08:38:36 PM 672 Views
This could work - 26/05/2010 08:43:21 PM 860 Views
Thanks - 26/05/2010 08:51:17 PM 688 Views
Re: Thanks - 26/05/2010 09:12:10 PM 640 Views
So I think this disproves it - 26/05/2010 08:49:55 PM 925 Views
Is that really true? - 26/05/2010 08:53:45 PM 706 Views
Sid, I made some edits, but really nothing's certain. Look again, pls. *NM* - 26/05/2010 08:55:30 PM 341 Views
I would generally agree with your edits - 26/05/2010 08:57:32 PM 670 Views
yes and no - 26/05/2010 09:31:53 PM 586 Views
Re: yes and no - 26/05/2010 09:55:46 PM 626 Views
well Moghedien somehow managed to create a whole Body for Birgitte - 26/05/2010 10:36:45 PM 687 Views
Could Rahvin turn Rand into a fishman if he was just there in Spirit? - 26/05/2010 10:19:05 PM 649 Views
And I agree with your response - 26/05/2010 09:49:00 PM 649 Views
You have to enter TAR in the Flesh to leave it in the Flesh. - 26/05/2010 10:06:02 PM 740 Views
Re: You have to enter TAR in the Flesh to leave it in the Flesh. - 26/05/2010 10:57:06 PM 633 Views
The short answer to Birgitte - 27/05/2010 02:37:13 AM 636 Views
I think this is possible. - 26/05/2010 11:28:51 PM 690 Views
Dream gateway! - 27/05/2010 12:05:31 AM 642 Views
I think the problem is that you can only channel Spirit through your T'A'R form - 27/05/2010 03:05:13 PM 613 Views
if you dream yourself into T'A'R then you're just a creation of your own mind - 27/05/2010 12:02:38 AM 588 Views
aren't we all? *NM* - 27/05/2010 12:04:08 AM 280 Views
if that was true you couldn't die in T'A'R - 27/05/2010 12:08:10 AM 606 Views
Why not? - 27/05/2010 03:41:10 PM 749 Views
if it's just a creation of your mind? - 27/05/2010 04:03:29 PM 694 Views
is it possible to Travel in T'A'R when dreaming? - 27/05/2010 12:06:57 AM 635 Views
I don't think anybody has said this before... - 27/05/2010 04:01:28 AM 719 Views
Your real body can only channel Spirit. - 27/05/2010 05:25:08 AM 729 Views
Yes, but you need real One Power to affect the real world. - 27/05/2010 06:46:21 AM 700 Views
The only real situation we have to compare... - 27/05/2010 06:59:51 AM 619 Views
That's a weird situation. - 27/05/2010 07:09:21 AM 679 Views
Well, yes. The Birgitte situation can't be compared directly to Sidious' - 27/05/2010 08:01:38 AM 694 Views
Re: The only real situation we have to compare... - 27/05/2010 07:11:45 PM 720 Views
If something that didn't exist before existed after... - 27/05/2010 08:58:55 PM 653 Views
Re: If something that didn't exist before existed after... - 28/05/2010 02:09:01 PM 744 Views
Actually I don't think so.. - 28/05/2010 02:31:27 PM 621 Views
your dream self couldn't exit TAR... - 27/05/2010 06:39:26 AM 678 Views
TAR constructs cannot leave it. - 27/05/2010 04:57:12 PM 840 Views
Re: Help me out with a TAR problem - 27/05/2010 06:58:18 PM 624 Views
shucks everyone already thought of this... *NM* - 27/05/2010 07:08:50 PM 293 Views
problem solved... sort of? - 28/05/2010 02:48:13 AM 750 Views
I agree with those saying that if you don't physically enter TAR... - 29/05/2010 09:32:40 PM 682 Views

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