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And it seems the woman wearing the bracelet has strange dreams too darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 26/05/2010 10:54:26 PM

If it didn't Moghedien would have found a Black Sister and gotten herself free... or would have pulled Nynaeve or Elayne into TAR at some point and gotten revenge ... too many options for her if it didn't stop her.

But it seems likely that death or madness akin to Machin Chin eating your soul would be the outcome if you left TAR in Spirit form.


This seems likely.

I wonder if this might also explain the other bizarre thing with the whole Moghedien episode that I have often wondered about. When Nynaeve imagined the a'dam collar around Moghediens neck while they were both in TAR, why is it that Moghedien did not just imagine the a'dam into nothingness? I mean we know that is possible, we have seen people change their clothes or imagine things such as bushes or other items into vanishing.

Why did Moghedien who is supposedly such a master of TAR not just get rid of the collar with her mind. For that matter, why did she not just choose to wake up in the real world and free herself from the collar that way. We know that dreamers can wake up at-will.

This would all be explained if the a'dam has some inbuilt block that neutralises all dream-abilities. Once Nynaeve imagined the thing around Moghedien's neck, Moghedien was no longer able to influence TAR in any way, or leave TAR willingly. Maybe dreamers were a lot more common in Seanchan and something like this was required to prevent the damane from forcibly pulling the sul'dam to TAR and killing her in her dreams or something.


LoC
A Matter of Thought

Shifting to her bed; Nynaeve frowned and fiddled with the a’dam bracelet on her wrist. She always insisted one of them wear it even when they slept, though it produced decidedly odd and unpleasant dreams.

and when you are in TAR you cannot affect a woman wearing the collar

LoC
A Matter of Thought

Nynaeve stood there in an Accepted’s white dress with the banded hem, impatient beside Siuan and Leane. She had the silver bracelet, too, though it would not work from here to the waking world; it still held Moghedien, but Nynaeve, out of her body, would not be feeling anything through it.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 26/05/2010 at 10:55:38 PM
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Help me out with a TAR problem Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:10:07 PM 1735 Views
Re: Help me out with a TAR problem Datakim - 26/05/2010 08:28:34 PM 1127 Views
No I don't mean that Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:37:27 PM 1177 Views
Re: No I don't mean that darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 08:39:42 PM 1021 Views
Re: No I don't mean that Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:52:22 PM 946 Views
I'm inclined to think the a'dam stops Dream Walking darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 09:26:20 PM 872 Views
Re: I'm inclined to think the a'dam stops Dream Walking Datakim - 26/05/2010 09:49:24 PM 865 Views
And it seems the woman wearing the bracelet has strange dreams too darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 10:54:26 PM 978 Views
Re: I'm inclined to think the a'dam stops Dream Walking HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 06:46:42 PM 849 Views
I think it would be the latter RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 07:11:17 PM 968 Views
I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/05/2010 11:39:14 PM 965 Views
Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. Datakim - 26/05/2010 11:50:56 PM 881 Views
Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 12:06:55 AM 895 Views
Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. Datakim - 27/05/2010 12:21:53 AM 937 Views
Re: I have a few mundane my reasons as to why Moghedien probably wouldn't and couldn't do that. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 02:58:36 PM 1009 Views
I disagree darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 03:21:05 PM 919 Views
Re: I disagree RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 07:08:41 PM 947 Views
If she could enter TAR she could drag an AS in with her, compell them and make them take it off darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 07:14:26 PM 974 Views
Re: If she could enter TAR she could drag an AS in with her, compell them and make them take it off RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 09:21:11 PM 1089 Views
I think we are saying pretty much the same thing here darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 09:24:37 PM 927 Views
We are close to the same idea, but different in where we think her ability will stop. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 09:37:28 PM 900 Views
*nods* *NM* darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 11:29:10 PM 420 Views
But channelling is not a requirement to enter TAR BlackAdder - 27/05/2010 08:31:21 AM 841 Views
The a'dam affects things in Channelers other than the ability itself darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 01:58:34 PM 1041 Views
I don't agree. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 03:02:08 PM 905 Views
you are misreading me I think darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 03:11:50 PM 1035 Views
Re: you are misreading me I think RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 06:30:29 PM 977 Views
Re: you are misreading me I think HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 06:42:36 PM 940 Views
That's the point. darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 06:57:35 PM 930 Views
Re: That's the point. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 07:10:25 PM 899 Views
Re: That's the point. darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 07:16:49 PM 874 Views
We may never know! RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 09:21:48 PM 917 Views
I would be very surprised if it came up in the books darius_sedai - 27/05/2010 09:25:29 PM 884 Views
Interesting idea. Datakim - 26/05/2010 09:38:04 PM 859 Views
Fascinating Idea #4 on this thread. Thanks, Sid! *NM* newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 10:31:48 PM 428 Views
Channeler heal thyself Datakim - 26/05/2010 11:40:25 PM 999 Views
There may be a clue to this in the descriptions of astral projection in comics and psychic studies RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/05/2010 11:59:42 PM 899 Views
Re: Help me out with a TAR problem cmoorejr - 26/05/2010 08:35:49 PM 896 Views
Doesn't work entyti - 26/05/2010 08:37:40 PM 1108 Views
we've seen this fail darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 08:38:06 PM 850 Views
I don't mean that Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:39:32 PM 842 Views
I'd say you either die or just wake up if you tried that darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 08:40:31 PM 846 Views
As far as I know... Etzel - 26/05/2010 08:38:36 PM 907 Views
This could work DomA - 26/05/2010 08:43:21 PM 1055 Views
Thanks Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:51:17 PM 890 Views
Re: Thanks DomA - 26/05/2010 09:12:10 PM 851 Views
So I think this disproves it newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 08:49:55 PM 1143 Views
Is that really true? Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:53:45 PM 915 Views
Sid, I made some edits, but really nothing's certain. Look again, pls. *NM* newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 08:55:30 PM 439 Views
I would generally agree with your edits Sidious - 26/05/2010 08:57:32 PM 876 Views
yes and no darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 09:31:53 PM 790 Views
Re: yes and no Datakim - 26/05/2010 09:55:46 PM 839 Views
5+ entries for "Book 4-6 Thing " now... Funny that we wrote slight variations simultaneously newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 10:24:03 PM 856 Views
well Moghedien somehow managed to create a whole Body for Birgitte darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 10:36:45 PM 923 Views
Could Rahvin turn Rand into a fishman if he was just there in Spirit? newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 10:19:05 PM 872 Views
And I agree with your response newyorkersedai - 26/05/2010 09:49:00 PM 867 Views
You have to enter TAR in the Flesh to leave it in the Flesh. krassos - 26/05/2010 10:06:02 PM 971 Views
Re: You have to enter TAR in the Flesh to leave it in the Flesh. darius_sedai - 26/05/2010 10:57:06 PM 827 Views
The short answer to Birgitte krassos - 27/05/2010 02:37:13 AM 854 Views
I think this is possible. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 26/05/2010 11:28:51 PM 918 Views
Dream gateway! Datakim - 27/05/2010 12:05:31 AM 860 Views
I think the problem is that you can only channel Spirit through your T'A'R form RugbyPlayingAshaman - 27/05/2010 03:05:13 PM 815 Views
if you dream yourself into T'A'R then you're just a creation of your own mind Jim - 27/05/2010 12:02:38 AM 803 Views
aren't we all? *NM* newyorkersedai - 27/05/2010 12:04:08 AM 394 Views
if that was true you couldn't die in T'A'R Foxhead - 27/05/2010 12:08:10 AM 829 Views
Why not? krassos - 27/05/2010 03:41:10 PM 991 Views
if it's just a creation of your mind? Foxhead - 27/05/2010 04:03:29 PM 938 Views
is it possible to Travel in T'A'R when dreaming? Foxhead - 27/05/2010 12:06:57 AM 848 Views
I don't think anybody has said this before... Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 04:01:28 AM 929 Views
Your real body can only channel Spirit. Gher - 27/05/2010 05:25:08 AM 954 Views
Yes, but you need real One Power to affect the real world. Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 06:46:21 AM 912 Views
Yes, I agree with that, but I was mostly just replying to your question about sleep-channeling. Gher - 27/05/2010 06:56:18 AM 842 Views
The only real situation we have to compare... Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 06:59:51 AM 833 Views
That's a weird situation. Gher - 27/05/2010 07:09:21 AM 886 Views
Well, yes. The Birgitte situation can't be compared directly to Sidious' Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 08:01:38 AM 914 Views
Re: The only real situation we have to compare... HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 07:11:45 PM 944 Views
If something that didn't exist before existed after... Fanatic-Templar - 27/05/2010 08:58:55 PM 857 Views
Re: If something that didn't exist before existed after... HyogaRott - 28/05/2010 02:09:01 PM 964 Views
Actually I don't think so.. darius_sedai - 28/05/2010 02:31:27 PM 818 Views
Plus, their ability to affect reality comes from the magic of the Horn of Valere. Fanatic-Templar - 28/05/2010 06:14:21 PM 799 Views
your dream self couldn't exit TAR... Onarishma - 27/05/2010 06:39:26 AM 899 Views
TAR constructs cannot leave it. fionwe1987 - 27/05/2010 04:57:12 PM 1063 Views
Not just constructs ... anything reflected in TAR cannot leave it ... Shishka - 27/05/2010 10:05:37 PM 1003 Views
Re: Help me out with a TAR problem HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 06:58:18 PM 846 Views
shucks everyone already thought of this... *NM* HyogaRott - 27/05/2010 07:08:50 PM 393 Views
problem solved... sort of? lummox - 28/05/2010 02:48:13 AM 979 Views
I agree with those saying that if you don't physically enter TAR... TaskmasterJack - 29/05/2010 09:32:40 PM 885 Views
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