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I tend to agree DomA Send a noteboard - 05/10/2010 01:41:22 AM
His grimace indicates to me that he is going to be admitting his mistakes and letting others pay the price to put those mistakes right again.

Basically, I don't think this will be a meeting where he gets to thumb his nose at the Aes Sedai, who for better or worse, have for the most part been trying to act as a bastion of order in a world where justice and order was breaking down.

I believe that he is essentially going to tell her that he can't worry about the Seanchan or the Black Tower anymore.


"New Rand" has the memories of LTT, and apparently a clear mind, a newfound focus, an acceptance of his role as the Creator's champion (in a religious sense, let's call a cat a cat. He speaks like a man who just got an epiphany and a new unshakable faith in the Creator and his mission for him. It sounds like the key to Rand's transformation was belief and acceptance of who he really wass, to fully embrace his role as Champion, which in turn made him a most powerful tool for the Wheel to guide. New Rand is going along with his nature. He's become the corrective mechanism the Wheel was hoping for, and now balance and order are literally born where he walks. We're already seeing Fel's "belief and order make strength" at work...). It sounds like even LTT had never reached that stage of "pure faith", always had his self-doubts, didn't like being called Dragon and didn't embrace the name (so Ishamael said, anyway), thought that believing oneself to be the Creator's tool and Champion was pure arrogance. It sounds like only now Rand/LTT has accepted what he is, fully.

"New Rand" seems like a man who has no more time for blame and guilt, or to distribute faults. He sounds like a man who is facing the truth as it is, who knows he's made many mistakes and others have made mistakes - that this served the Shadow - and he has no time to shed tears over all this, or to try to assign blame. He's now about to set things in motion to correct what's wrong, wherever the wrong comes from. He's not going to Egwene to present her with a list of recriminations. He needs her to help.

I guess "New Rand" new request may no longer run along the line of "serve me". He will now tell people to choose their side and commit themselves fully to the Light, to follow him into his newfound beliefs. He's done believing he's more than a tool, but no longer feels demeaned by being a tool, less human or free for being used. He was offered a choice by the Creator in EOTW, and on DM he finally made his choice, to accept being the Creator's tool, his Chosen One. And as a tool, his role is to lead the Light, both in the fight to come, and as its inspirational figure (which we already see at work with Almen Bunt)...

As for the topic of discussion with Egwene... The confrontation with her was foretold by Elaida (it is the first verse), and all the connected verses in that foretelling tell us what the central topic of that meeting will be... It's about the Asha'man and the Aes Sedai.


LTT's instincts, experiences, memories, have always screamed at Rand that Taim and the BT were a terrible idea (mistakes LTT made by trusting men like Barid Bel Medar...) - Rand had rejected these instincts as "madness" before, because he could see no other choice but Taim and the BT, but New Rand most likely understands very well that choosing Taim because his arrival was so convenient was a big mistake, and he also erred in his vision of these men as weapons, kind of kamikaze for the LB, doomed to die there with their only hope being able to die in glory, or by being hunted and gentled as their reward if they survived (Rand didn't cleanse saidin to give the Asha'man a life post TG. His rationale was strictly that at the ongoing rate he might lose all the Asha'man to madness before TG, and he couldn't lose his "weapons".). Rand owes the Asha'man something: hope, a possibility for a future beyond the LB. He's made them into an organization, he will now send them back "home".

"New Rand" is probably well aware that the childish way he reacted to Logain's accusations that Taim was a DF and a traitor was caused by his resent and jealousy that Logain was a leader the other Asha'man followed (they obey Rand when ordered, but it's Logain whom they chose as their leader, freely... and whom they chose to follow out of the BT) and put in his face what Rand already knew, and had failed to find any time to correct. Worse, Logain rightfully blamed Rand for doing nothing about Taim.

Rand reacted badly, irrationally in anger. He got this crackpot idea to punish Logain and his men for their loyalty to his orders (not to harm AS.. when AS came to harm them they didn't have a thousand solutions and chose the lesser of many evils by bonding them, protecting them from themselves, and from Taim) and his cause (the Light's). Rand then peevishly started undermining Logain's position as leader, by making him his errand boy instead of picking a mere soldier for this, by leaving him behind to watch a border later on. Logain fought back by displaying more and more arrogance and pride whenever dealing with Rand, a leader he tried to serve loyally, but found himself totally unable to respect, let alone like...

I think "New Rand", with all LTT's memories, knows this wasn't the way to be a leader... and that he's let his feelings get in the way and he made a great injustice and big mistake by sending Egwene's people to deal with Taim.

There's two main things Rand wishes to discuss with Egwene, IMO: The BT, and the male and female channellers.

The first thing is to tell her Taim is almost certainly a DF and he's made in spite a mistake to send her to him. Egwene mustn't send her envoys there (he will be miffed by the fact it's too late). Being told about Taim, and that Rand offered her to bond Asha'man despite knowing this, is what Egwene will really not like to hear, and Rand knows this. Rand's also in a conundrum: If he sends Logain to deal with Taim, chances are he would lose a great deal of his loyal men in this war, especially if his newfoudn clarity gives him a clue what the "special classes" mean: Forsaken backing. If Egwene acts alone, she will lose tons and tons of sisters, like Elaida did but worse. The Light cannot afford this. That's what Rand wishes to tell Egwene:

- The BT is a nest of the Shadow, Rand is largely responsible for it, but the Shadow is in the end everyone's business and this nest of it must be dealt with, and he can't.
- Only the channellers can deal with it. Rand has more important things to do.
- Rand wants Egwene to acknowledge that since saidin is clean, the time has now come for the Aes Sedai to be reunified. Rand, the world, need men and women to be One again, to be as strong as they could be. The BT and its culture are failures - Rand has erred, and the time has come to cut the losses, save what can be saved, and move forward.

- The world cannot afford another Fateful Concord or disunity among male and female channellers, and Rand counts on Egwene to work with him so this doesn't happen. He might ask her to share leadership with Logain... or perhaps tell her the Asha'man don't have the Tower's 3000 years of culture - have lost 3000 years becaus of the Taint, and he needs more than an imitation of the WT, and he needs it fast. He needs Egwene and the sisters to take charge, and be the Aes Sedai leaders and offer a home and organization to their brothers, and he needs this new WT wholly behind him.

That's the mission Rand intends to put in Egwene's (and then Logain's) lap: she must cast aside 3000 years of prejudices and welcome back the Asha'man in the White Tower, and Logain has to agree to this. It can't wait for after TG, the Light must have this "Tower whole" for the LB and has already lost way too much time, then they must deal with the likely now united BA and BT forces, kill this in the bud if possible.

Rand doesn't know of Egwene's problems with the Seanchan, so that's not a topic he comes to raise with her. It's rather Egwene who will reveal to him the Seanchan have striked at the WT from the South, and probably stole Travelling. I think Rand will tell Egwene this will have to be dealt with, and it makes the union of Asha'man and AS even more urgent. However, Egwene has to put the Seanchan out of her mind for now. He won' want Egwene and Logain to strike back at them. He will tell Egwene the utmost must be done to avoid this war if at all possible - and he will work on that, but for now... firs thing first, no truce with the Shadow: Taim and the BA need to be dealt with. This army of the Shadow must be crippled before TG begins, all the more if they've become mixed gender recently.

If Egwene raises the topic... Rand might also tell her she must deal with Mesaana herself, and she mustn't dally. I get the feeling if the topic is raised, Rand will reveal to Egwene a great deal about Mesaana, her methods, her pet plots and techniques, which will open new avenues of investigation to Egwene, who is currently blocked.

I think among the sort of points Rand brings to Egwene is that his knowledge of the OP is now that of the greatest man of the AOL, but that he can teach only men- not women, and only what is needed now. That's another reason he needs men and women together. His knowledge will mostly be useful used by circles, since no one can bring the women "up to speed". It might occur to Egwene that soon the male Aes Sedai will be vastly more skilled than the women, and these men will be the women's only hope to catch up, and failing that, women will be outclassed and mostly useful as "muscle" in the circles. If Egwene doesn't want the Tower to fall distant second to what the Asha'man can do (or will be able to do, once Rand starts to pass on LTT's knowledge), to the point of becoming irrelevant because their OP skills no longer impress compared to the men's... she has a clear choice ahead of her: integrate the men into the Tower, make them AS too, and grow together.

I wonder what Rand planned for the case Egwene was still assieging TV and Elaida was still Amyrlin... I'm guessing he possibly planned to tell Egwene the time had come for him as Champion of the Light to interfere, remove Elaida at this hour because she was totally unsuitable a leader for what's to come next, and make Egwene the Amyrlin, if she'll agree to be the leader he needs.. else, he'd find someone else... Nynaeve, Cadsuane...

From his experience with Elayne, Rand would know Egwene would really have disliked hearing that (that Rand would have "the arrogance" of thinking he can reunite the Tower and make her the leader...) but Rand might argue back he'd rather not do that, and left her deal with this - too happy to have the Tower out of his hair in the meantime, but now he couldn't wait anymore.

On the matter of the Aes Sedai "compelled" into his service, I'm guessing "New Rand" drawing on LTT's stuff might answer Egwene: "By following me and helping my cause, these sisters are Servants of All", because my fight is everyone's battle. It's time Aes Sedai remember the meaning of their name, because we all need you and the Asha'man to be the servants of all."

My feeling is that while there will be a bit of yelling and recrimination from Egwene, her main feeling by the time the meeting is over isn't anger, but rather a mix of being stunned by what happened and a bit in awe of what Rand has become. A few weeks ago, that meeting might have ended in disaster, but I guess the Egwene who made her mea culpa and told the dirty truth to the Hall in TGS is ready for this... but might be apprehensive and burdened when told Rand considers the Tower only half-whole now, and half-purged... and that her victory is still not enough and she must complete both tasks: the union of all channelers behind the Tower, and the purging.

This message last edited by DomA on 05/10/2010 at 01:45:23 AM
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Chapter 1 released - 01/10/2010 01:40:27 PM 5594 Views
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I don't agree - I think that what he is going to tell Egwene will be unpleasant for everyone. - 01/10/2010 04:07:19 PM 1220 Views
Why would that upset her? - 01/10/2010 04:21:29 PM 1269 Views
Because I think she was hoping to work with him to solve some of these problems - 01/10/2010 04:42:33 PM 1249 Views
I tend to agree - 05/10/2010 01:41:22 AM 1101 Views
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I'd say - 08/10/2010 08:30:17 PM 1019 Views
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ARGH! Spoilers! Spoilers! MINE EYES!!!! - 14/10/2010 08:52:53 AM 1091 Views

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