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Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues Fanatic-Templar Send a noteboard - 10/03/2012 06:40:00 PM
Well I'm not sure if I totally agree. I think that the Shadow has often been seen to screw its self. I can't think of anything more satisfying than Rand preventing another taint on the One Power using the Dark One's own magic against him. I'm not saying it will happen, but thematically I don't see a problem. I'm not saying that Rand must be evil, but it could be similar to Verin infiltrating the BA to destroy them. Sometimes the Light gets to be smug too..


It's the entire point of Shadar Logoth and Padan Fain. It's also the reason why Dark Rand was wrong, despite the fact that people on this board were advocating things like "the risk of annihilating the entire universe is a price you just have to pay if you want to destroy one of Shai'tan's pawns", or "Rand is the saviour of the world, and everyone who refuses to serve him deserves to be destroyed". This isn't "the Shadow screwing itself", it's fighting pure evil with pure evil. And I'm not sure what to say if you think that this series will conclude with pure evil granting victory over Shai'tan.

I don't agree. The text says that he suddenly becomes so black that he even soaks up the light of Callandor. Until then, the text clearly stated that he had no chance against Rand with the sa'angreal. It's a sign that he has suddenly gained equal footing, and its reflected in his triumphant look.


Yes, because he started using the True Power.

I agree with you that he was dreamwalking until then. Well, mostly. I think his initial attacks of balefire were channeled, but after that he travelled and most likely went to TAR where Rand chased after him. I think you probably could do all of those things with the OP if you had the aptitudes, but Ishamael is strong in TAR, its logical he'd go there if being chased by a strong channeler.

Apart from that, I'm not sure if you're contending that Ishamael used saidin mostly and had to beg for TP use? I find that completely unlikely. I think his appearance is more than evidence enough that he is an exclusive TP user and has been since the War of Power.

I guess he asked the DO to aid him directly. That's sort of like having your patron god come down and defend you.


I know that's what you're asserting, but do you have anything to support that claim?
The first rule of being a ninja is "do no harm". Unless you intend to do harm, then do lots of harm.
~Master Splinter

Victorious in Bergioyn's legendary 'Reverse Mafia'. *MySmiley*
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What's so special about Callandor? - 06/03/2012 07:31:40 PM 2416 Views
Honestly, I'm more curious about the "Dragon-only" barrier that surrounded it - 06/03/2012 09:16:15 PM 1369 Views
I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 06/03/2012 09:56:02 PM 1425 Views
Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 07/03/2012 04:11:21 AM 1466 Views
Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 07/03/2012 10:31:39 AM 1319 Views
Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 07/03/2012 10:55:56 PM 1367 Views
RJ addressed this ... I had a similar thought several years back and this quote was floated my way - 07/03/2012 04:18:01 AM 1358 Views
Hmm.... - 07/03/2012 01:50:07 PM 1285 Views
Very similar to what you are getting at as I recall - 07/03/2012 02:00:56 PM 1160 Views
Using the True Power to win Tarmon Gai'don goes against every moral in the series. - 07/03/2012 07:00:02 AM 1216 Views
actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 10:36:03 AM 1152 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 06:02:48 PM 1200 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 06:18:16 PM 1160 Views
If anything the Dark One WANTS Lews Therin to use the TP *NM* - 07/03/2012 09:43:20 PM 725 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 11:38:56 PM 1356 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 10/03/2012 11:52:23 AM 1362 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 10/03/2012 06:40:00 PM 1172 Views
Have to agree with you on this - 12/03/2012 01:17:06 AM 1170 Views
Re: Have to agree with you on this - 12/03/2012 02:36:13 PM 1155 Views
Fain has become so much more than human. We have no real sense of the limits of his power - 18/03/2012 11:21:54 PM 1058 Views
Shai'tan is the opposite half of the Creator. - 19/03/2012 01:44:31 AM 1027 Views
I actually don't see it that way - 19/03/2012 03:37:26 AM 1200 Views
depends how you look at it - 19/03/2012 10:41:28 AM 1237 Views
Re: depends how you look at it - 19/03/2012 01:07:21 PM 999 Views
Re: depends how you look at it - 19/03/2012 08:12:17 PM 1133 Views
Odds are you are correct - 19/03/2012 11:45:03 PM 986 Views
Re: depends how you look at it - 20/03/2012 12:51:48 PM 1016 Views
The DO did not not destroy Mashadar alone - 19/03/2012 11:42:21 PM 1019 Views
That's not correct. - 20/03/2012 01:55:05 AM 1022 Views
Saidin and the True Power both touched Mashadar - 20/03/2012 01:11:17 PM 1311 Views
Re: Saidin and the True Power both touched Mashadar - 20/03/2012 04:27:33 PM 945 Views
Re: Saidin and the True Power both touched Mashadar - 20/03/2012 04:57:08 PM 1291 Views
You explantion is - 20/03/2012 06:17:52 PM 1049 Views
Agreed *NM* - 19/03/2012 11:40:40 PM 547 Views
RJ Quote: - 19/03/2012 06:52:12 PM 985 Views
Exactly - 19/03/2012 08:54:22 PM 1341 Views
Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 19/03/2012 11:48:20 PM 983 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 01:06:20 PM 1028 Views
My point with imagination is simply that destruction only does 1 thing - 20/03/2012 01:14:55 PM 1178 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 04:35:17 PM 1020 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 04:59:13 PM 976 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 08:57:35 PM 1127 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 21/03/2012 01:09:13 PM 1059 Views
Yep . - 21/03/2012 04:51:15 PM 986 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 14/03/2012 12:15:36 PM 1128 Views
except the TP is not just a tool. - 14/03/2012 01:41:17 PM 1209 Views
No, the Choedan Kal was a tool. - 14/03/2012 05:20:53 PM 949 Views
Sounds like the One Ring - 04/05/2012 03:55:01 PM 1140 Views
I totally agree with you on both issues Ben - 07/03/2012 11:44:42 PM 1287 Views
No, I don't agree - 10/03/2012 12:11:37 PM 1228 Views
That makes no sense... - 10/03/2012 09:21:19 PM 1053 Views
Re: That makes no sense... - 11/03/2012 12:25:53 AM 1096 Views
Name an existing well that has that much power, though. - 11/03/2012 01:11:40 AM 1021 Views
He makes a good point though. - 11/03/2012 05:49:59 AM 1056 Views
Yes, but... - 11/03/2012 06:17:25 AM 1019 Views
Re: Yes, but... - 11/03/2012 06:47:43 PM 1053 Views
I found a couple of quote - 12/03/2012 12:00:36 AM 1217 Views
Yeah, I looked through Terez' quote database. - 12/03/2012 12:46:38 AM 1031 Views
Re: That makes no sense... - 11/03/2012 08:54:11 AM 1166 Views
Re: That makes no sense... - 12/03/2012 02:15:19 PM 1241 Views
Re: No, I don't agree - 12/03/2012 01:49:10 PM 1232 Views
How the Three can become One using the True Power...mindtraps of Moggy and Cyndane... - 12/03/2012 06:04:22 PM 1120 Views
Whether it happens or not, it might explain the choice of mind trap victims - 13/03/2012 06:43:45 AM 1299 Views
Re: Whether it happens or not, it might explain the choice of mind trap victims - 13/03/2012 05:19:21 PM 1035 Views
That's what I meant - 18/03/2012 11:13:19 PM 1113 Views

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