Active Users:2821 Time:03/05/2026 01:10:45 AM
Re: Have to agree with you on this DomA Send a noteboard - 12/03/2012 02:36:13 PM
I would not be surprised to see Mordeth/Fain actually kill the DO and end up being imprisoned by Rand as a new DO for the next age.


How could Fain possibly defeat a deity and become one himself?

The DO is a deity who is the equal of the Creator. A whole point of Jordan's universe seems to be that you can't get rid of Shai'tan permanently (he's outside the Pattern, remember). He's been there from the beginning and will be there to the end.

Fain has become a kind of walking manifestation of Mashadar. He's something like Shadar Logoth's Shaidar Haran (not literally, but thematically and all, it's what he is).

He's some kind of wilcard in the LB (one Rand can't take into account because he can predict Fain will be present at SG... if he turns out to be), but I think you exagerate his potential role.

Something more "reasonable" and in line with the role of Mashadar at the Cleansing may be for Fain to be used to force the DO to retreat briefly from the Bore, to lose his grip, to destroy the Bore. That would destroy Fain and whatever "part" of the DO is holding the Bore in place, but not Shai'tan. A big problem is that Rand would have to capture (and be able to hold) Fain before conceiving any such plan, and with Fain in the Blight already, that doesn't seem to be heading this way.

Another possibility, more in line with the "wildcard" aspect would be that Fain will deal with Shaidar Haran, a creature that is a limited physical manifestation of Shai'tan in the Pattern that Rand doesn't know about and won't take into account in his final plans unless he learns of its existence before going to SG. If Rand never learns of it and doesn't take it into account, Shaidar Haran could "ruin" everything by appearing at SG at the end, but based on the Cleansing where Mashadar and the Taint destroyed each other, it may be quite possible that a clash between Fain and SH would end in the destruction of both of them.





This message last edited by DomA on 12/03/2012 at 02:39:39 PM
Reply to message
What's so special about Callandor? - 06/03/2012 07:31:40 PM 2386 Views
Honestly, I'm more curious about the "Dragon-only" barrier that surrounded it - 06/03/2012 09:16:15 PM 1343 Views
I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 06/03/2012 09:56:02 PM 1399 Views
Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 07/03/2012 04:11:21 AM 1432 Views
Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 07/03/2012 10:31:39 AM 1288 Views
Re: I also think the flaw might be deliberate - 07/03/2012 10:55:56 PM 1329 Views
RJ addressed this ... I had a similar thought several years back and this quote was floated my way - 07/03/2012 04:18:01 AM 1328 Views
Hmm.... - 07/03/2012 01:50:07 PM 1260 Views
Very similar to what you are getting at as I recall - 07/03/2012 02:00:56 PM 1136 Views
Using the True Power to win Tarmon Gai'don goes against every moral in the series. - 07/03/2012 07:00:02 AM 1186 Views
actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 10:36:03 AM 1111 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 06:02:48 PM 1171 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 06:18:16 PM 1126 Views
If anything the Dark One WANTS Lews Therin to use the TP *NM* - 07/03/2012 09:43:20 PM 694 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 07/03/2012 11:38:56 PM 1330 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 10/03/2012 11:52:23 AM 1335 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 10/03/2012 06:40:00 PM 1150 Views
Have to agree with you on this - 12/03/2012 01:17:06 AM 1151 Views
Re: Have to agree with you on this - 12/03/2012 02:36:13 PM 1127 Views
Fain has become so much more than human. We have no real sense of the limits of his power - 18/03/2012 11:21:54 PM 1015 Views
Shai'tan is the opposite half of the Creator. - 19/03/2012 01:44:31 AM 1007 Views
I actually don't see it that way - 19/03/2012 03:37:26 AM 1178 Views
depends how you look at it - 19/03/2012 10:41:28 AM 1215 Views
Re: depends how you look at it - 19/03/2012 01:07:21 PM 968 Views
Re: depends how you look at it - 19/03/2012 08:12:17 PM 1100 Views
Odds are you are correct - 19/03/2012 11:45:03 PM 962 Views
Re: depends how you look at it - 20/03/2012 12:51:48 PM 983 Views
The DO did not not destroy Mashadar alone - 19/03/2012 11:42:21 PM 994 Views
That's not correct. - 20/03/2012 01:55:05 AM 993 Views
Saidin and the True Power both touched Mashadar - 20/03/2012 01:11:17 PM 1282 Views
Re: Saidin and the True Power both touched Mashadar - 20/03/2012 04:27:33 PM 921 Views
Re: Saidin and the True Power both touched Mashadar - 20/03/2012 04:57:08 PM 1263 Views
You explantion is - 20/03/2012 06:17:52 PM 1018 Views
Agreed *NM* - 19/03/2012 11:40:40 PM 524 Views
RJ Quote: - 19/03/2012 06:52:12 PM 962 Views
Exactly - 19/03/2012 08:54:22 PM 1313 Views
Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 19/03/2012 11:48:20 PM 957 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 01:06:20 PM 1004 Views
My point with imagination is simply that destruction only does 1 thing - 20/03/2012 01:14:55 PM 1154 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 04:35:17 PM 989 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 04:59:13 PM 952 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 20/03/2012 08:57:35 PM 1089 Views
Re: Personally I view it more as Creation v. Destruction - 21/03/2012 01:09:13 PM 1031 Views
Yep . - 21/03/2012 04:51:15 PM 960 Views
Re: actually self-sacrifice is one of the Dragon's principle virtues - 14/03/2012 12:15:36 PM 1103 Views
except the TP is not just a tool. - 14/03/2012 01:41:17 PM 1183 Views
No, the Choedan Kal was a tool. - 14/03/2012 05:20:53 PM 911 Views
Sounds like the One Ring - 04/05/2012 03:55:01 PM 1116 Views
I totally agree with you on both issues Ben - 07/03/2012 11:44:42 PM 1266 Views
No, I don't agree - 10/03/2012 12:11:37 PM 1201 Views
That makes no sense... - 10/03/2012 09:21:19 PM 1023 Views
Re: That makes no sense... - 11/03/2012 12:25:53 AM 1065 Views
Name an existing well that has that much power, though. - 11/03/2012 01:11:40 AM 997 Views
He makes a good point though. - 11/03/2012 05:49:59 AM 1030 Views
Yes, but... - 11/03/2012 06:17:25 AM 987 Views
Re: Yes, but... - 11/03/2012 06:47:43 PM 1015 Views
I found a couple of quote - 12/03/2012 12:00:36 AM 1190 Views
Yeah, I looked through Terez' quote database. - 12/03/2012 12:46:38 AM 1002 Views
Re: That makes no sense... - 11/03/2012 08:54:11 AM 1142 Views
Re: That makes no sense... - 12/03/2012 02:15:19 PM 1218 Views
Re: No, I don't agree - 12/03/2012 01:49:10 PM 1202 Views
How the Three can become One using the True Power...mindtraps of Moggy and Cyndane... - 12/03/2012 06:04:22 PM 1091 Views
Whether it happens or not, it might explain the choice of mind trap victims - 13/03/2012 06:43:45 AM 1268 Views
Re: Whether it happens or not, it might explain the choice of mind trap victims - 13/03/2012 05:19:21 PM 1009 Views
That's what I meant - 18/03/2012 11:13:19 PM 1090 Views

Reply to Message