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Re: Egwene... DomA Send a noteboard - 30/04/2012 07:41:11 AM

Egwene has about the same screentime in AMOL as the three ta'veren.

Do you have the source for that. I'd like to use it for a theory I'm working on...


Brandon's twitter, repeatedly. You might be able to locate them via Terez's dabatabase.

Not verbatim but close, he commented she had nearly the same as Perrin/Mat, and when people were surprised, he said something like "well, she is one of the main characters of the series, it's only normal we see her a lot during the Last Battle".

While writing her storyline, he also made comments in the vein of "as I expand RJ's outline for her storyline, Egwene keeps requiring more and more scenes than I thought she'd need".

By the way, Brandon spoke of Perrin's POVs clocking at 50K words, that should give you a rough idea for Egwene's.

Rand has the most POVs, but Brandon said the others aren't that far behind. The total book will be more than 300k but won't reach 400k after editing, by Brandon's estimate (I think he was around 335k for his finished first draft). So it seems the four main characters' POV cover something between 2/3 and 4/7th of the book, the rest is misc. POVs.

That de facto makes Egwene the main female protagonist in AMOL, but that's not really a surprise. When she wasn't since the mid-series (or even earlier), it was because her storyline was on stand-by because of the asynchronous timelines.

It's interesting she has so many POV. Her presence/role in the action was a given, but that so much would be seen from perspective wasn't necessarily a given. It opens a lot of possibilities.

I find it even more interesting that Rand's POVs are the most numerous, however. I had wondered (especially since the epiphany) if Jordan intended to keep showing things about Rand a lot from the outside or if he would return for the end to his perspective as in the early and mid-series. Now it seems confirmed Jordan pretty much did what he did in TDR when he wanted us to wonder if Rand went mad, preferring to show Rand's growing darkness a lot from the outside.

Having a lot of his POVs now he's "re-integrated" with LTT should be really fun. To really understand what his epiphany brought, for one thing, but also because Rand will be a treasure box of back story elements (Forsaken, WOS history, technology, the da'shain and other AOL stuff) now, stuff he won't necessarily say in dialogue but what's going on will make him think about.


I still find the Egwene portion puzzling. I love her chapters but I find it interesting that she's getting such a big portion of the book, and even more puzzling that BS describes the need to add more chapters about her. I always figured that after Merrilor she would disappear and have a rather token role at the LB leading the Aes Sedai. Perhaps there will be a few chapters cementing Tower politics but I can't imagine they will spend too much time on petty issues with the LB on the horizon. Even if a lot of the LB is through Egwene, why not use Nynaeve or perhaps other Aes Sedai like Cadsuane or Moiraine to describe these scenes?


Well, the first couple of things that come to mind are that

a) Remember that Rand announced to his followers he wouldn't lead the world or the war, that he had other things only he as Dragon could do, one of them being fighting the DO. Rand did went to Egwene as if expecting her to play her traditional (third age) role as Amyrlin Seat. We probably underestimate Egwene's political role through the LB. She is more than just Amyrlin, she also stands at the center of the loose alliance of female channellers, and she is central to bringing together the nations at Merrilor to "oppose" Rand. Even if Rand sways her and the nations and WT follow her change of mind, Egwene now has positionned herself to be a central player/leader. It appears the nation suddenly wish to see the Amyrlin as ruler above the rulers again...

b) We are only guessing that the book with deal with the Fields of Merrilor meeting quickly. It's quite possible there's more build up to that then we think, or that the negotiating takes a larger chunk of the book than we think.

c) Don't forget the Seanchan, the Seanchan woman telling Egwene "we must help each other", Egwene facing Rand and with women, among them a Seanchan etc. The bets are open if the Seanchan will play a mostly disruptive role in TG or join the Light, but Egwene's obviously not done with the Seanchan - TGS was a build up to the final "confrontation", not the resolution of that storyline.

d) The reunification of the male and female Aes Sedai isn' complete, and nothing says this won't be a development playing out over the course of the LB rather than something that will miraculously happen at the beginning. Again Egwene might have a central role to play. The Windfinders don't really believe in the Cleansing etc. Another major factor is Logain, with whom Egwene has ties.

e) The BT issue. It's another major crisis Egwene is tied to as Amyrlin. She has many sisters involved there, the issue of the envoys isn't solved, far from it, not the least because her envoys are there because Rand told the AS to go there. Again: Logain. There's no certainty Rand will be the one to deal with the BT, or that it won't require big AS involvement, even in the decision making. It is after all partly a Rand problem and partly the result of Elaida's mess.

f) The Aiel and Egwene. The WO and the AS. Egwene going back to the Tinker camp in TGS. Enough said. Don't forget how exactly they served the AS, the Voice, their powers, what Singing could really do. People tried to get BS to give more details that are not in the BWB. Big RAFO apparently.

g) The most important of course: Egwene and TAR. Three of the remaining Forsaken are the most dangerous and skilled TAR users among them, you can hardly think it's a coincidence RJ kept the three most skilled there for the end... Graendal possibly, Demandred in a big role, and the "Dream team". One of those at least is confirmed as a full dreamer but Brandon suspects there's at least two, one of each gender which means Moridin is a Dreamer (well, it won't be Demandred). It's likely we underestimate the role Moridin's prophetic talent has had in the story (and backstory) and that he is the source of the Dark Propĥecies. Egwene's prophetic talent is only recently increasing. It will likely be relevant during TG, not only her ability to Dreamwalk. In a Q&A, Brandon warned not to underestimate Egwene or start believing Perrin is better than her just because in TGS/TOM she was rusty because she had too much to handle recently to work much on her skills. Lanfear once manipulated Egwene like a babe, and there's a strong possibility there's now unfinished business between her and Cyndane. Same for Moghedien, as a matter of fact. Egwene managed to best a Forsaken and destroy her mind, appears to have single-handly destroyed the BA (the Shadow might never discover how she did it) - Ishamael's pet creation, which Shaidar Haran tasked Alviarin to save in KOD. She played the major role in turning away the Seanchan attack. She has solidly in hand a group of what, 2000 female channelers - and has managed to undo nearly everything Mesaana has done. None of that should make Moridin see Egwene as a negligible quantity or for him to sit idly letting Egwene and Logain recreate the real Aes Sedai of old... And worse, the bloody woman is a Dreamer and has just proven to her own organization that she truly is one and her Dreams must be heeded. Egwene herself should now be fairy high on the Shadow's hit list. And that's without getting into all the possibilties that TAR could have a major role in the endgame or during TG itself. And of course, there's a dreamspike to take care of. Brandon kind of hinted that LTT was not quite in Egwene's league in TAR.. and after what happened to Graendal's one, the Shadow will certainly heavily protect the second one.

h) Egwene is the leader of the Aes Sedai. If Rand doesn't lead the war himself as it appears to be his wish, then Egwene's decisional role about the LB should be massive. Her storyline prepared her for that role. She's not been forced to learn to deal with generals, organize a campaign with one, learn to trust them and for them (well, him - Bryne) to trust her for nothing. Isn't it obvious? Mat has started to learn to work with Aes Sedai, and Egwene has learned the value of and to work with a general. None of that prepared them for working with each other (not to mention the last time in Salidar that didn't go exactly well...), which of course they will soon have to do on a regular basis, and which should be.... hilarious. Egwene will be on the war councils.

There's probably more, and some of that is probably of the red herring type that won't lead anywhere important in the end, but it's not likely to be all or nearly all of that that won't be.

About adding scenes, BS said that he wrote her he realized telling the story of what RJ had planned for her required more POV/scenes that he guessed before he started writing her.

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Very interesting QA with Brandon - 20/04/2012 11:19:02 PM 2803 Views
I'm sad - 21/04/2012 12:00:33 AM 1168 Views
Ha! Not even RJ could keep up with the world he created! *NM* - 21/04/2012 01:01:29 AM 459 Views
I found it painful to read - 21/04/2012 09:53:31 AM 1030 Views
Do you find that surprising? - 21/04/2012 02:52:47 PM 882 Views
I find it disappointing - 22/04/2012 08:09:10 AM 803 Views
How would obscure crap screw up the story? - 21/04/2012 06:51:27 PM 934 Views
He apparently amended himself the next day... - 21/04/2012 08:00:01 PM 1317 Views
"Brandon: Umm, when did Perrin meet Masema?" ughhh facepalm *NM* - 22/04/2012 02:45:45 AM 526 Views
Re: He apparently amended himself the next day... - 22/04/2012 08:34:39 AM 983 Views
I find your pain highly amusing. *NM* - 23/04/2012 04:50:09 AM 563 Views
I'll make my pain yours *NM* - 23/04/2012 02:34:31 PM 473 Views
Sid.. Sid... Sid... *sigh*... *facepalm* *NM* - 24/04/2012 11:09:22 PM 535 Views
Re: Very interesting QA with Brandon - 22/04/2012 02:53:38 AM 960 Views
Re: Very interesting QA with Brandon - 22/04/2012 03:10:21 PM 1023 Views
Re: Very interesting QA with Brandon - 23/04/2012 05:48:18 AM 845 Views
This certainly makes a mockery of a lot that us 20-year long readers of Wot used to hold dear... - 23/04/2012 09:50:51 AM 1171 Views
Re: This certainly makes a mockery of a lot that us 20-year long readers of Wot used to hold dear... - 23/04/2012 02:39:30 PM 970 Views
Agreed.. - 23/04/2012 03:22:05 PM 935 Views
Re: Agreed.. - 24/04/2012 05:47:22 AM 851 Views
It's just their pet subject. - 24/04/2012 06:01:24 PM 937 Views
I think you may be giving RJ more credit than his due here - 24/04/2012 10:35:28 PM 964 Views
Re: I think you may be giving RJ more credit than his due here - 25/04/2012 05:02:04 AM 834 Views
We are in very close alignment - 25/04/2012 01:27:37 PM 776 Views
Re: This certainly makes a mockery of a lot that us 20-year long readers of Wot used to hold dear... - 24/04/2012 05:46:03 AM 880 Views
Re: This certainly makes a mockery of a lot that us 20-year long readers of Wot used to hold dear... - 24/04/2012 08:10:15 AM 956 Views
You replied far more diplomatically than I would have... - 24/04/2012 10:10:57 AM 861 Views
It's got little to do with obsession... - 25/04/2012 01:20:48 AM 871 Views
Re: It's got little to do with obsession... - 25/04/2012 05:05:40 PM 881 Views
Re: It's got little to do with obsession... - 27/04/2012 12:58:36 AM 815 Views
Question about TGS and ToM: - 27/04/2012 02:20:34 AM 782 Views
Very similar to you - 27/04/2012 09:50:52 PM 902 Views
Are there plans for rewrites / reordering of the books? - 29/04/2012 01:17:48 PM 849 Views
of course there's no plan - 30/04/2012 06:15:49 AM 1228 Views
I didn't know Harriet had such a big role in this - 30/04/2012 10:57:14 PM 760 Views
She does - 01/05/2012 03:52:40 PM 854 Views
Egwene... - 27/04/2012 05:41:13 AM 813 Views
Re: Egwene... - 27/04/2012 09:30:32 PM 824 Views
Re: Egwene... - 28/04/2012 09:44:43 AM 799 Views
I don't find it all that surprising - 28/04/2012 03:56:41 PM 742 Views
Re: I don't find it all that surprising - 29/04/2012 08:07:55 AM 751 Views
Agreed - 29/04/2012 01:52:06 PM 710 Views
Re: I don't find it all that surprising - 30/04/2012 07:54:14 AM 678 Views
I suspect Cadsuane will die before that happens - 30/04/2012 07:06:04 PM 844 Views
Re: I suspect Cadsuane will die before that happens - 30/04/2012 08:36:44 PM 708 Views
Cadsuane shouldn't reswear the oaths - 30/04/2012 10:43:32 PM 822 Views
Apparenly not - 01/05/2012 04:26:08 PM 687 Views
Not sure Cadsuane will ever be reigned in by anyone - 01/05/2012 01:18:44 AM 715 Views
Re: Not sure Cadsuane will ever be reigned in by anyone - 01/05/2012 08:17:49 PM 1063 Views
As usual we are in pretty close alignment - 02/05/2012 04:29:20 AM 911 Views
Re: Egwene... - 30/04/2012 07:41:11 AM 689 Views
Re: Egwene... - 01/05/2012 07:10:35 PM 768 Views
Re: Egwene... - 01/05/2012 10:51:09 PM 1011 Views
I think there is a lot of TAR coming up - 05/05/2012 05:13:18 AM 670 Views
Probably - 05/05/2012 06:52:57 PM 795 Views
Thanks! This fits nicely with my thoughts... - 28/04/2012 10:05:27 PM 844 Views
Re: Thanks! This fits nicely with my thoughts... - 30/04/2012 03:08:57 PM 826 Views
the angreal part bothered me way more - 28/04/2012 10:51:46 AM 765 Views
what's MAFO? *NM* - 28/04/2012 07:01:52 PM 475 Views
Maria (Simmons) And Find Out - 29/04/2012 02:07:19 AM 733 Views

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