Active Users:384 Time:01/05/2025 06:48:08 AM
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules
Never said she was evil, just wrong. Horribly and tragically wrong. Joel Send a noteboard - 14/05/2012 02:34:27 AM

I'm kind of shocked that anyone thinks that Egwene is in for a fall in the last book. She's going to be one of the principle protagonists.

Just because she doesn't agree with Rand doesn't mean she's in for the plunge. That's a very simplistic way of looking at her character.

The list of people who disagreed with Rand includes Nynaeve, Min, Aviendha, Elayne, Cadsuane, Lan, Moiraine, Perrin... are we sensing a Pattern here yet?

We know for a fact that there have been previous turnings where the Pattern has set a counter to the Dragon soul. That counter was Hawkwing, who has worked with the Dragon as many times as he has opposed him.

What people don't seem to get is that opposition to the Dragon is not a sign of evil.

I'm not saying that Egwene's soul is also a counter the Wheel has used many times (I don't think she's LPD reborn, for example). But she certainly is being used as such at this point. And she has several Parallels with Hawkwing, too.

What mystifies me is that these people don't seem to pick on the respect Egwene and Rand display for each other in ToM. Are they set on a collision course? Sure. Are they exasperated by each other? Sure. Do they show respect for what the other has become? Yes!

These aren't rivals in a power play. These are allies who disagree. FoM is going to be nowhere close to the acrimonious battle of wills so many people are expects (even hoping).

And all signs point to them soon learning to work together, and Egwene being involved in Rand's "death". In many ways, the Seals debate is a distraction. I'm not even entirely sure Brandon didn't invent it to give a convenient end point to ToM, and that the real FoM debate was supposed to be about the Seanchan and the Dragon's Peace.

If you recall, my whole premise here is that one of the WoTs major themes is good people coming to epically bad ends because they believe everyone else too dishonest/stupid to be trusted with any pivotal part in saving the world. An aspect of that is that by restricting that to the Nialls, Elaidas and Siuans of Randland makes it harder to catch, and that subjecting even (especially) a protagonist to it drives the message home nicely. Egwenes case is particularly striking; she even thinks the DRAGON REBORN incompetent to act without her hands firmly on the reins (regardless of trivial things like 3000 years of prophecy.)

That approach is only effective precisely BECAUSE she is not evil. If she does experience an epic fall, being turned to the Shadow is likely to figure prominently in that, given how often the subject has come up around her in the series. However, it would not be that she falls because she is evil, but that she is turned to evil because she falls. She would make a pretty "bad ass" Dreadlord at the Last Battle; what if her character development has set her up for THAT...?

Like I say, I think it is even money, but dismissing it out of hand based on the evidence we have strikes me as presumptuous.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.

Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Reply to message
The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. Nate - 03/05/2012 03:52:14 PM 5036 Views
It's pretty damn cool. Stephen - 03/05/2012 03:59:36 PM 2687 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. Artsapat - 03/05/2012 04:08:09 PM 2811 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. Nate - 03/05/2012 04:17:19 PM 2787 Views
the pit of doom is hot alanna aes sedai - 12/06/2012 01:57:18 AM 2286 Views
I think I like Callandor from TDR better.. Tweak - 03/05/2012 04:26:42 PM 2840 Views
yes. I sincerely doubt she has that kind of competency LadyLorraine - 03/05/2012 05:52:22 PM 2703 Views
Re: I think I like Callandor from TDR better.. Vidarfe - 04/05/2012 11:10:49 AM 2550 Views
Heh - Cannoli-baiting *NM* HousealThor - 04/05/2012 04:46:51 PM 1997 Views
*NM* Tweak - 05/05/2012 09:04:15 PM 1917 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. Bored - 03/05/2012 05:06:19 PM 2452 Views
I really like it LadyLorraine - 03/05/2012 05:54:51 PM 2736 Views
The sword grip is not akward or wrong HyogaRott - 03/05/2012 06:20:54 PM 2468 Views
something like this? guttering flame - 03/05/2012 06:46:59 PM 3056 Views
well, for one, I didn't say it was "wrong" so don't jump down my throat. LadyLorraine - 04/05/2012 10:03:06 PM 2605 Views
If you think that was jumping down your throat... seriously... *NM* HyogaRott - 07/05/2012 01:51:45 PM 2123 Views
when I initially read it, it came off that way. I apologize if I misinterpreted you. *NM* LadyLorraine - 09/05/2012 04:58:13 PM 2066 Views
Its the sword thats not a sword (its a night light!) djwilson300 - 04/05/2012 04:47:27 PM 2469 Views
oh no fair enough! like i said, I just think it looks a little awkward. LadyLorraine - 04/05/2012 10:04:21 PM 2431 Views
Me, too! RugbyPlayingAshaman - 12/05/2012 01:18:06 AM 2533 Views
Well... DomA - 03/05/2012 06:09:51 PM 2834 Views
I think it is EG and Nyn HyogaRott - 03/05/2012 06:24:13 PM 2524 Views
Pretty sure it's Mo and Nyn NaClH2O - 03/05/2012 06:40:49 PM 2566 Views
Yeah... DomA - 03/05/2012 07:55:32 PM 2493 Views
when did Nynaeve cut her hair? Onarishma - 08/05/2012 07:33:04 PM 4072 Views
It was burned off during her testing for the shawl. alanna aes sedai - 12/06/2012 02:53:43 AM 3229 Views
Egwene is a distinct possibility... fionwe1987 - 03/05/2012 11:37:48 PM 2616 Views
She is DomA - 04/05/2012 12:15:21 AM 2718 Views
I don't know... fionwe1987 - 04/05/2012 12:25:53 AM 2435 Views
Re: I don't know... DomA - 04/05/2012 02:47:02 AM 2632 Views
I'm not disagreeing with most of that... fionwe1987 - 08/05/2012 02:58:53 AM 2326 Views
"You expect me to wise up?" "No, Egwene, I expect you to DIE!" Joel - 11/05/2012 01:36:09 AM 2546 Views
What books have you been reading? fionwe1987 - 11/05/2012 01:57:31 AM 2576 Views
Egwene made many things "clear;" I dug up all the ToM quotes for a post near this time last year Joel - 11/05/2012 01:12:05 PM 2390 Views
I agree DomA - 11/05/2012 02:51:38 PM 2681 Views
The other quotes you requested, as promised. Joel - 13/05/2012 03:29:41 AM 2634 Views
You misinterpreting quotes is hardly worth requoting... fionwe1987 - 13/05/2012 11:36:21 AM 2339 Views
Agreed Sidious - 13/05/2012 03:39:12 PM 2443 Views
Exactly... fionwe1987 - 13/05/2012 05:53:17 PM 2398 Views
Never said she was evil, just wrong. Horribly and tragically wrong. Joel - 14/05/2012 02:34:27 AM 2441 Views
fionwe1987 - 14/05/2012 04:23:21 AM 2363 Views
Re- Joel - 21/05/2012 02:43:49 AM 2840 Views
Principle protagonists can still experience epic falls. Joel - 14/05/2012 02:21:42 AM 2443 Views
Then she wouldn't be a "protagonist" fionwe1987 - 14/05/2012 04:38:34 AM 2382 Views
Again, I never said she is or will become evil. Joel - 21/05/2012 03:03:32 AM 2546 Views
Re: Principle protagonists can still experience epic falls. Sidious - 14/05/2012 08:32:50 AM 2499 Views
Re: Principle protagonists can still experience epic falls. Joel - 21/05/2012 03:28:48 AM 2326 Views
For the most part, very little interpretation was required. Joel - 14/05/2012 01:58:26 AM 2524 Views
Re: For the most part, very little interpretation was required. fionwe1987 - 14/05/2012 03:51:31 AM 2742 Views
Re: For the most part, very little interpretation was required. DomA - 14/05/2012 06:41:32 AM 2507 Views
Yeah... fionwe1987 - 14/05/2012 07:47:16 AM 2523 Views
Re: Yeah... DomA - 14/05/2012 04:40:49 PM 2560 Views
Re: For the most part, very little interpretation was required. Joel - 21/05/2012 06:21:48 AM 2476 Views
Look at their foreheads Tor - 16/05/2012 08:38:51 AM 2568 Views
Re: I think it is EG and Nyn DomA - 03/05/2012 07:38:36 PM 2527 Views
I could be wrong, but I believe Rand used Calandor as a sword in the Stone. HyogaRott - 03/05/2012 08:06:45 PM 2342 Views
I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too Sidious - 03/05/2012 09:05:58 PM 2358 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too DomA - 03/05/2012 11:28:42 PM 2513 Views
Idea Timthetrolloc - 04/05/2012 10:11:05 AM 2501 Views
Re: Idea Vidarfe - 04/05/2012 12:09:17 PM 2486 Views
Or.... Artsapat - 04/05/2012 12:19:16 PM 2377 Views
This would explain the hidden hand PatAtt - 04/05/2012 08:54:00 PM 2519 Views
That's a good point. Nate - 04/05/2012 08:59:41 PM 2653 Views
Nah... HyogaRott - 07/05/2012 01:56:13 PM 2567 Views
Can you draw a blade guttering flame - 08/05/2012 06:00:28 AM 2500 Views
It depens on the construction of the scabbard HyogaRott - 10/05/2012 01:36:30 PM 2415 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too Sidious - 04/05/2012 02:49:51 PM 1577 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too DomA - 04/05/2012 07:42:12 PM 2616 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too Sidious - 07/05/2012 08:02:26 PM 2399 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too DomA - 07/05/2012 09:32:45 PM 2634 Views
Thanks! *NM* Sidious - 13/05/2012 10:56:06 AM 2367 Views
I actually found the champion/politician split between parallels very convincing. Joel - 11/05/2012 01:35:34 PM 2516 Views
Re: I actually found the champion/politician split between parallels very convincing. DomA - 11/05/2012 04:06:50 PM 2305 Views
Egwene-Mat... fionwe1987 - 11/05/2012 09:05:07 PM 2413 Views
Re: Egwene-Mat... DomA - 12/05/2012 05:31:29 AM 2768 Views
Egwenes problem is her knack for seeing the error of her ways without ever LEARNING it. Joel - 13/05/2012 04:57:27 AM 2695 Views
The Seanchan assassin... fionwe1987 - 13/05/2012 11:47:53 AM 2331 Views
You do realize she drew her own (false but firm) conclusions based on a dearth of data. Again. Joel - 14/05/2012 02:08:26 AM 2374 Views
Re: You do realize she drew her own (false but firm) conclusions based on a dearth of data. Again. fionwe1987 - 14/05/2012 04:08:11 AM 2416 Views
Re: You do realize she drew her own (false but firm) conclusions based on a dearth of data. Again. Joel - 21/05/2012 01:59:15 AM 2451 Views
looks a little 'naughty pirate novel' but is pretty fricken awesome! *NM* Yunalesca - 03/05/2012 06:50:42 PM 1951 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. Gartax - 03/05/2012 07:25:37 PM 2372 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. Nate - 03/05/2012 07:36:09 PM 2502 Views
It's his left hand Rand lost *NM* DomA - 03/05/2012 08:00:01 PM 1939 Views
Thanks for the imput! *NM* Gartax - 03/05/2012 08:24:59 PM 2309 Views
I does not look like Nynaeve and Moiraine Skeeve the Great - 03/05/2012 11:39:01 PM 2444 Views
Nynaeve has cut her braid and has her hair shoulder length in TOM.... DomA - 03/05/2012 11:44:50 PM 2598 Views
Re: Nynaeve has cut her braid and has her hair shoulder length in TOM.... Skeeve the Great - 03/05/2012 11:51:02 PM 3426 Views
Am I the only one who sees the red dot in her forehead? *NM* Milla - 09/05/2012 08:36:53 PM 1968 Views
looks *$%$%*@ great *NM* mogi67 - 04/05/2012 02:47:00 AM 2049 Views
i quite like it! as far as the women go... wolfsister - 04/05/2012 06:38:10 PM 2583 Views
No Maidens of the Spear Knightscape - 05/05/2012 05:09:27 PM 2571 Views
Re: No Maidens of the Spear HyogaRott - 07/05/2012 02:02:36 PM 2675 Views
nynaeve with no braid?.... are we sure its not egwene? or did no one tell him the hairstyles? *NM* Onarishma - 08/05/2012 06:48:49 PM 1852 Views
Nyn cut her braid off. *NM* Artsapat - 08/05/2012 06:55:02 PM 2096 Views
I thought it was burned off during her test for Aes Sedaihood. *NM* guttering flame - 08/05/2012 07:25:51 PM 957 Views
Right, my mistake. Then she cut her hair to make it straight again. *NM* Artsapat - 08/05/2012 08:54:33 PM 1992 Views
I don't remember this at all *NM* Onarishma - 08/05/2012 07:51:04 PM 2085 Views
Regarding the identities of the women on the back: Nate - 09/05/2012 08:52:47 PM 2697 Views
What the hell is on the ground close to the bottom edge of the picture? *NM* Skeeve the Great - 10/05/2012 05:55:07 AM 2027 Views
A misplaced logo? *NM* guttering flame - 10/05/2012 08:24:52 AM 1961 Views
Possibly one of the Seals? Joel - 11/05/2012 01:42:13 AM 2479 Views
It's Michael Whelan's signature. I looked it up and found it in a different book cover *NM* Deadsy - 11/05/2012 07:05:22 AM 1957 Views
agreed Sidious - 10/05/2012 07:16:39 AM 2562 Views
Partially concur HyogaRott - 10/05/2012 01:17:31 PM 2340 Views
She's in the Pit of F*ing Doom. Ben Stein would be excited *NM* Deadsy - 12/05/2012 04:22:44 AM 912 Views
i agree with the big about how Moiraine should be depicted LadyLorraine - 12/05/2012 11:04:53 PM 1415 Views
you can see a second weapon in Rand's belt too Yunalesca - 13/05/2012 08:51:34 PM 1372 Views
That looks pretty cool, better than most of the other WoT covers A Deathwatch Guard - 26/06/2012 07:37:29 AM 1192 Views
Back to Messageboard Post New Thread Search Help Stats Rules

Reply to Message

Block Quote Paragraph Quote
Formatting
Smiley Codes