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Again, I never said she is or will become evil. Joel Send a noteboard - 21/05/2012 03:03:32 AM
She would be a main character, but not a protagonist, if her story involved a massive fall into evil.

Obviously, forcible turning to the Shadow is more complicated than that; such a PoV would be interesting, but the authors may equal to writing it.

As for our supposed knowledge that Rand MUST break the Seals... I'm confused. What makes you think this? The only reason Rand thinks this way is because of Herid Fel's note, and his books, which were conveniently left behind after the Shadow went through an elaborate assassination to silence him. Both those sources are of doubtful provenance. In person, we have this:

"Is there any reason you can think of to break the seals?"
Herid's eyebrows shot up. "Break the seals? Break the seals? Why would anyone but a madman want to do that? Can they even be broken? I seem to remember reading somewhere they can't, but I don't recall now that it said why. What made you think of a thing like that?"
"I don't know," Rand sighed. In the back of his head Lews Therin was chanting. Break the seals. Break the seals, and end it. Let me die forever.

Actually, we have both Nynaeve and Perrin citing the same logic stated in Fels note, independently of both it and Rand: That the damaged/destroyed remnants of the old Seals must be removed before a new permanent Seal can be affixed. I do not know how it could be made more obvious, short of every character introducing themselves to each other with "Hi, I am Plot D'vice; the damaged remnants of the old Seals must be removed before a permanent one can be applied." :P

I'm not saying any of this proves Rand is wrong. But the timing of Egwene's Dream about the Seals, added to the Pattern allowing no one but her to speak to Rand in the Hall (while the same effect was certainly not true outside, before he came in), certainly points to something at play here. Likely, they both have parts of the puzzle. The Seals do need to be broken, but only just before they can Seal the DO back again, not before they even have a plan. Likely, that is precisely what Egwene's position ends up being once she can work out the meaning of her Dream in the context of what arguments Rand offers towards the breaking of the Seals.

Rand is not talking about wildly dashing off to destroy the Seals as soon as the thought occurred to him (if that were his intent, he would have already done so without informing Egwene or anyone.) He told Egwene he does yet have all the answers when informing her of his plan, and that he (rightly) desires her aid and counsel in finding them. Unfortunately, Egwene is too Hell-bent on preventing the Seals destruction (even though she was among the first to discover they are gradually failing anyway) to consider the other parts of their conversation. I might be more sympathetic to her view if she had ventured even a crude notion of an alternative, but the sum total of her position is "Rand MUST not destroy the Seals, because it would loose the DO on the world." As if that will not inevitably happen whatever they do or do not do.

Egwene has decided her Dream means Rand must be opposed at all costs, and will not be dissuaded, so if she figures out its ACTUAL meaning it will probably be at the last minute or after the fact. As things stand, her role in what they must do together consists of marshalling the Westlands soldiers and channelers for the Last Battle, to which she will then be little more than a speed bump. Obviously, as a major character, she will ultimately prove more than just a speed bump, but whether positively or negatively is yet to be seen.
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This message last edited by Joel on 21/05/2012 at 03:04:08 AM
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The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. - 03/05/2012 03:52:14 PM 5200 Views
It's pretty damn cool. - 03/05/2012 03:59:36 PM 2866 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. - 03/05/2012 04:08:09 PM 2953 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. - 03/05/2012 04:17:19 PM 2954 Views
the pit of doom is hot - 12/06/2012 01:57:18 AM 2441 Views
I think I like Callandor from TDR better.. - 03/05/2012 04:26:42 PM 2985 Views
yes. I sincerely doubt she has that kind of competency - 03/05/2012 05:52:22 PM 2871 Views
Re: I think I like Callandor from TDR better.. - 04/05/2012 11:10:49 AM 2701 Views
Heh - Cannoli-baiting *NM* - 04/05/2012 04:46:51 PM 2102 Views
*NM* - 05/05/2012 09:04:15 PM 2017 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. - 03/05/2012 05:06:19 PM 2610 Views
I really like it - 03/05/2012 05:54:51 PM 2906 Views
The sword grip is not akward or wrong - 03/05/2012 06:20:54 PM 2619 Views
something like this? - 03/05/2012 06:46:59 PM 3221 Views
Its the sword thats not a sword (its a night light!) - 04/05/2012 04:47:27 PM 2622 Views
oh no fair enough! like i said, I just think it looks a little awkward. - 04/05/2012 10:04:21 PM 2608 Views
Me, too! - 12/05/2012 01:18:06 AM 2691 Views
Well... - 03/05/2012 06:09:51 PM 2994 Views
I think it is EG and Nyn - 03/05/2012 06:24:13 PM 2672 Views
Pretty sure it's Mo and Nyn - 03/05/2012 06:40:49 PM 2725 Views
Yeah... - 03/05/2012 07:55:32 PM 2665 Views
when did Nynaeve cut her hair? - 08/05/2012 07:33:04 PM 4262 Views
It was burned off during her testing for the shawl. - 12/06/2012 02:53:43 AM 3509 Views
Egwene is a distinct possibility... - 03/05/2012 11:37:48 PM 2794 Views
She is - 04/05/2012 12:15:21 AM 2868 Views
I don't know... - 04/05/2012 12:25:53 AM 2579 Views
Re: I don't know... - 04/05/2012 02:47:02 AM 2813 Views
I'm not disagreeing with most of that... - 08/05/2012 02:58:53 AM 2492 Views
"You expect me to wise up?" "No, Egwene, I expect you to DIE!" - 11/05/2012 01:36:09 AM 2733 Views
What books have you been reading? - 11/05/2012 01:57:31 AM 2750 Views
I agree - 11/05/2012 02:51:38 PM 2844 Views
The other quotes you requested, as promised. - 13/05/2012 03:29:41 AM 2783 Views
You misinterpreting quotes is hardly worth requoting... - 13/05/2012 11:36:21 AM 2486 Views
Agreed - 13/05/2012 03:39:12 PM 2584 Views
Exactly... - 13/05/2012 05:53:17 PM 2541 Views
Never said she was evil, just wrong. Horribly and tragically wrong. - 14/05/2012 02:34:27 AM 2595 Views
- 14/05/2012 04:23:21 AM 2501 Views
Re- - 21/05/2012 02:43:49 AM 2975 Views
Principle protagonists can still experience epic falls. - 14/05/2012 02:21:42 AM 2582 Views
Then she wouldn't be a "protagonist" - 14/05/2012 04:38:34 AM 2514 Views
Again, I never said she is or will become evil. - 21/05/2012 03:03:32 AM 2695 Views
Re: Principle protagonists can still experience epic falls. - 14/05/2012 08:32:50 AM 2668 Views
Re: Principle protagonists can still experience epic falls. - 21/05/2012 03:28:48 AM 2492 Views
For the most part, very little interpretation was required. - 14/05/2012 01:58:26 AM 2707 Views
Re: For the most part, very little interpretation was required. - 14/05/2012 03:51:31 AM 2889 Views
Re: For the most part, very little interpretation was required. - 14/05/2012 06:41:32 AM 2656 Views
Yeah... - 14/05/2012 07:47:16 AM 2671 Views
Re: Yeah... - 14/05/2012 04:40:49 PM 2702 Views
Re: For the most part, very little interpretation was required. - 21/05/2012 06:21:48 AM 2647 Views
Look at their foreheads - 16/05/2012 08:38:51 AM 2753 Views
Re: I think it is EG and Nyn - 03/05/2012 07:38:36 PM 2676 Views
I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too - 03/05/2012 09:05:58 PM 2509 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too - 03/05/2012 11:28:42 PM 2681 Views
Idea - 04/05/2012 10:11:05 AM 2645 Views
Re: Idea - 04/05/2012 12:09:17 PM 2633 Views
Or.... - 04/05/2012 12:19:16 PM 2510 Views
This would explain the hidden hand - 04/05/2012 08:54:00 PM 2665 Views
That's a good point. - 04/05/2012 08:59:41 PM 2828 Views
Nah... - 07/05/2012 01:56:13 PM 2714 Views
Can you draw a blade - 08/05/2012 06:00:28 AM 2653 Views
It depens on the construction of the scabbard - 10/05/2012 01:36:30 PM 2562 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too - 04/05/2012 02:49:51 PM 1723 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too - 04/05/2012 07:42:12 PM 2787 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too - 07/05/2012 08:02:26 PM 2570 Views
Re: I vote for Nynaeve and Moiraine too - 07/05/2012 09:32:45 PM 2810 Views
Thanks! *NM* - 13/05/2012 10:56:06 AM 2534 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. - 03/05/2012 07:25:37 PM 2518 Views
Re: The cover for A Memory of Light is revealed. - 03/05/2012 07:36:09 PM 2673 Views
It's his left hand Rand lost *NM* - 03/05/2012 08:00:01 PM 2048 Views
Thanks for the imput! *NM* - 03/05/2012 08:24:59 PM 2417 Views
I does not look like Nynaeve and Moiraine - 03/05/2012 11:39:01 PM 2628 Views
Nynaeve has cut her braid and has her hair shoulder length in TOM.... - 03/05/2012 11:44:50 PM 2760 Views
Re: Nynaeve has cut her braid and has her hair shoulder length in TOM.... - 03/05/2012 11:51:02 PM 3584 Views
Am I the only one who sees the red dot in her forehead? *NM* - 09/05/2012 08:36:53 PM 2103 Views
looks *$%$%*@ great *NM* - 04/05/2012 02:47:00 AM 2160 Views
i quite like it! as far as the women go... - 04/05/2012 06:38:10 PM 2737 Views
No Maidens of the Spear - 05/05/2012 05:09:27 PM 2721 Views
Re: No Maidens of the Spear - 07/05/2012 02:02:36 PM 2828 Views
nynaeve with no braid?.... are we sure its not egwene? or did no one tell him the hairstyles? *NM* - 08/05/2012 06:48:49 PM 1952 Views
Nyn cut her braid off. *NM* - 08/05/2012 06:55:02 PM 2207 Views
I thought it was burned off during her test for Aes Sedaihood. *NM* - 08/05/2012 07:25:51 PM 1067 Views
I don't remember this at all *NM* - 08/05/2012 07:51:04 PM 2193 Views
Regarding the identities of the women on the back: - 09/05/2012 08:52:47 PM 2881 Views
What the hell is on the ground close to the bottom edge of the picture? *NM* - 10/05/2012 05:55:07 AM 2140 Views
A misplaced logo? *NM* - 10/05/2012 08:24:52 AM 2066 Views
Possibly one of the Seals? - 11/05/2012 01:42:13 AM 2615 Views
agreed - 10/05/2012 07:16:39 AM 2705 Views
Partially concur - 10/05/2012 01:17:31 PM 2512 Views
She's in the Pit of F*ing Doom. Ben Stein would be excited *NM* - 12/05/2012 04:22:44 AM 1015 Views
i agree with the big about how Moiraine should be depicted - 12/05/2012 11:04:53 PM 1593 Views
you can see a second weapon in Rand's belt too - 13/05/2012 08:51:34 PM 1560 Views
That looks pretty cool, better than most of the other WoT covers - 26/06/2012 07:37:29 AM 1335 Views

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