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Re: Thoughts... DomA Send a noteboard - 21/05/2012 09:35:29 PM
So, Mat is going to Ebou Dar, eh? Wonder what that means for the Tower invasion. Mat will put an end to it if he makes it on time, but will he? Did RJ really plan to have two Seanchan invasions of the Tower in one book? And is Moiraine with Mat, as seems likely, or is she in Merrilor?


IMO, Mat leaves for Ebou Dar after Merrilor.

I guess there's a possibility Mat makes the decision on his own after witnessing the loss of Caemlyn to the Shadow (nice to see this confirmed at last, that's been a pet theory for several books now...) and upon hearing the WT did get attacked by the Seanchan. Mat is a military genius and he's going to see this in military terms (and he's got Moirane and Thom to discuss the politics with him). It's far from impossible he coldly calculates the Light has either lost without an alliance with Tuon, or far more interestingly, that the only way to avoid the Seanchan clashing with the Light, he must convince the Empress to give her Prince of Ravens the command of her armies for Tarmon Gai'don (in a mirror/parallel of Barid Bel Medar's betrayal... Mat would do this to serve the Light, but that wouldn't sit well with Egwene... possibly not even with Rand though that's less sure. I guess this could be the whole "I would never betray you" comment from Mat's PS trip. Not the Shadow... Mat resurfacing at the head of the Seanchan armies when the Seanchan are still enemies. And it's Mat who will have these armies fight the Shadow, not the Light. I can even see one obvious way he might do that.. by demonstrating to the Seanchan generals and Tuon their planned attack on Caemlyn will totally fail, and how he'd lead that battle... knowing all along but not telling it's now the Shadow the Seanchan will face there. That's how his reputation among generals grew originally, and how he found himself playing key strategic roles. Mat can be as crafty as a fox. If he can convince Tuon of his worth, and she's all but figured it out on her own already, he might manage to deceive her.) That would be a way in wich the alliance between the Seanchan and the rest only comes once the LB is well under way and the strength of the Shadow leaves them no other options but to unite. By then, Mat would probably be as popular and revered among the Seanchan soldiers and officers than he is (soon, was?) with the Band... perhaps more than Tuon herself...

An interesting question is whether Mat will have lost the Band of the Red Hand in Caemlyn or not (or rather to what extent). In the TW, their forerunner all perished to buy time for the population of Manetheren to flee the Shadow. I could see Talmanes doing this if he sees they have no hope of winning that battle (interesting too that with the recent merger, he's now one of Elayne's lords... the Band is definitely Elayne's "Severed Hand, not hers". A kind of replay of Manetheren's fall is certainly not impossible. We can't know for sure the Light will hear of the fall of Caemlyn before returning, Elayne may face a losing battle on her return (could she pull another heroic stunt and Travel into the occupied palace, for instance to insure her ter'angreal collection don't fall in the Shadow's hands... there may be developments at Merrilor to justify something like this... and Elayne "can't die".). There's no solid foreshadowing concerning the role of the Band in the LB.

Moiraine? *shrugs*. It depends on too many factors. For all we know, Mat's party returning from Ghenjei might reach Caemlyn after Merrilor (the timeline is so vague, all options are possible.. before, during, after). The timeline is going to massively affect the options for Moiraine's next move. She could stay with Mat until he returns to Rand, she could leave if Rand's location is known. She could also decide to go to Egwene in Tar Valon (where if things went wrong at Merrilor, she might be extremely useful, if only to remind Egwene of what she did herself, what she called "remembering how to control saidar" - a comment which had quite puzzled Egwene at the time).

What second attack on TV are we speaking of?

Jordan got us fooled, convincing most of us the dream of the Seanchan attack and the dream with the Seanchan woman were linked. They were not. In the second dream, the one she interrupted, Egwene is obviously in trouble or unable to see the light at the end of a tunnel, but it doesn't necessarily foreshadows an attack.

In KOD, the Seanchan military planned two attacks. There were two maps. One of them was Tar Valon, we don't know for sure what the second one was, but it's a good bet it was Caemlyn/the BT. I doubt the meant to hit TV a second time, even with Travelling.

And Egwene thinks Rand is mad? Where did this come from?


She doubted his sanity during and after their meeting remember.

Egwene hasn't yet met anyone who could convince her Rand is (now again) quite sane. She didn't know the man she met wasn't the man she's heard all those disturbing reports about.

Min, Cadsuane, Tam, the Borderlands rulers are some of those people who know better. None of these people will meet Egwene before Merrilor, presumably.
This message last edited by DomA on 21/05/2012 at 09:55:13 PM
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aMoL UK cover and Blurb (SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!) - 21/05/2012 06:44:26 PM 3169 Views
Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 06:46:41 PM 1638 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 08:04:29 PM 1567 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 08:45:41 PM 1523 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 09:04:09 PM 1635 Views
*nods in agreement* *NM* - 21/05/2012 10:46:48 PM 578 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 11:08:50 PM 1472 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 22/05/2012 01:02:16 AM 1526 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 09:35:29 PM 1549 Views
Mat and the madness... - 21/05/2012 10:30:09 PM 1487 Views
Nynaeve's revelation may make the AS even more worried of Rand being mad - 21/05/2012 10:58:37 PM 1496 Views
Not Egwene though... - 21/05/2012 11:02:41 PM 1303 Views
Maybe, maybe not ... Nynaeve just gave everyone proof of the extent of his possible madness - 21/05/2012 11:26:41 PM 1296 Views
Fair enough. - 21/05/2012 11:31:10 PM 1309 Views
Agreed that it's an odd blurb - 21/05/2012 11:45:03 PM 1348 Views
Re: Maybe, maybe not ... Nynaeve just gave everyone proof of the extent of his possible madness - 22/05/2012 01:14:05 AM 1379 Views
I was thinking about that... - 22/05/2012 02:35:25 AM 1279 Views
Re: I was thinking about that... - 22/05/2012 03:41:48 AM 1380 Views
Re: Mat and the madness... - 22/05/2012 02:29:31 AM 1456 Views
Rand's dreams... - 22/05/2012 02:42:36 AM 1302 Views
She assumes he's mad just like most people assume a 19 year old boy is horney - 22/05/2012 03:47:49 AM 1493 Views
I'd like some evidence for this. - 22/05/2012 04:14:27 AM 1329 Views
It's still ingrained in the society - 22/05/2012 01:28:05 PM 1346 Views
Moridin and the link - 28/05/2012 01:45:43 AM 1232 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 23/05/2012 01:06:10 PM 1337 Views
What caught my eye there was "Trollocs seize Caemlyn." - 22/05/2012 02:12:25 PM 1361 Views
As much as I would love Moiraine to go with him to Ebou Dar - 22/05/2012 07:20:40 PM 1517 Views
At this stage, all roads lead to Rand. - 22/05/2012 09:08:42 PM 1322 Views
Re: At this stage, all roads lead to Rand. - 23/05/2012 08:07:56 PM 1398 Views
Well, like I say, there is no reason they could not ALL meet up with Tuon. - 23/05/2012 08:53:53 PM 1309 Views
Re: Well, like I say, there is no reason they could not ALL meet up with Tuon. - 24/05/2012 02:41:55 PM 1485 Views
Aviendha's visions from Rhuidean indicate he will kneel... - 24/05/2012 07:04:02 PM 1713 Views
Re: Aviendha's visions from Rhuidean indicate he will kneel... - 26/05/2012 09:42:20 PM 2082 Views
Agreed... - 26/05/2012 09:57:06 PM 1386 Views
I think you are extrapolating some of his actions into more than he intends - 26/05/2012 10:37:44 PM 1236 Views
Re: Agreed... - 27/05/2012 04:26:15 AM 1338 Views
I think you're both wrong... - 27/05/2012 08:41:50 AM 1341 Views
Re: I think you're both wrong... - 27/05/2012 07:10:08 PM 1346 Views
I can't believe Galad will be accepted as a ruler since he is the Lord Captain Commander - 28/05/2012 02:48:26 AM 1358 Views
Re: I can't believe Galad will be accepted as a ruler since he is the Lord Captain Commander - 28/05/2012 04:54:46 PM 1342 Views
That makes no sense - 28/05/2012 05:50:16 PM 1366 Views
Taringail was Laman's heir... - 28/05/2012 07:20:07 PM 1395 Views
You are answering the wrong question - 29/05/2012 02:19:48 PM 1270 Views
No. I've answered the exact question. You seem to have missed it. - 29/05/2012 04:40:17 PM 1314 Views
Yet not one of these things actually happened - 29/05/2012 10:13:35 PM 1338 Views
You're being absurd... - 30/05/2012 01:04:36 AM 1825 Views
Explain why Taringail didn't become King after Laman's death then - 30/05/2012 05:48:48 AM 1398 Views
- 30/05/2012 06:11:02 AM 1219 Views
Why then would Taringail, an ambitious man, renounce a Throne? - 30/05/2012 06:22:08 AM 1369 Views
We don't fully know... - 30/05/2012 06:43:30 AM 1151 Views
You just flipped your last statement - 30/05/2012 06:55:36 AM 1395 Views
You seem extremely confused... - 30/05/2012 09:56:30 AM 1323 Views
Not confused, simply not satisfied with the information we have - 30/05/2012 12:15:59 PM 1279 Views
Re: Not confused, simply not satisfied with the information we have - 30/05/2012 03:34:06 PM 1454 Views
I am not contesting the information we have - 30/05/2012 04:48:08 PM 1468 Views
You're impossible... - 30/05/2012 10:02:59 PM 1311 Views
Wow ... Not sure what is bringing out the aggression - 30/05/2012 10:19:18 PM 1280 Views
*sigh* - 30/05/2012 11:45:28 PM 1352 Views
DomA swore *NM* - 31/05/2012 03:39:24 PM 1381 Views
Re: That makes no sense - 29/05/2012 04:39:45 PM 1452 Views
Only one other thing... - 29/05/2012 04:53:29 PM 1171 Views
Re: Only one other thing... - 30/05/2012 12:32:58 PM 1207 Views
Bryne was Captain General not First Prince and Taringail was Prince Consort not FP - 30/05/2012 06:07:48 AM 1301 Views
Bryne was First Prince Regent. - 30/05/2012 06:19:33 AM 1193 Views
Fair enough ... Thanks for providing a quote - 30/05/2012 06:22:52 AM 1429 Views
Re: Fair enough ... Thanks for providing a quote - 30/05/2012 04:38:29 PM 1261 Views
No he wasn't - 30/05/2012 04:16:02 PM 1230 Views
No Forsaken will go near that Ter'angreal - 26/05/2012 10:33:20 PM 1158 Views
Re: No Forsaken will go near that Ter'angreal - 27/05/2012 03:23:12 AM 1238 Views
Aviendha reprogrammed the ter'angreal - 27/05/2012 01:50:19 PM 1211 Views
Re: Aviendha reprogrammed the ter'angreal - 27/05/2012 06:44:41 PM 1443 Views
I'd have to re-read to be 100% certain, but the way I read the passage - 28/05/2012 02:10:14 AM 1321 Views
He might not literally kneel before the ter'angreal, but almost certainly must meet with Tuon soon. - 25/05/2012 03:40:54 AM 1606 Views
Soon might be relative... - 27/05/2012 02:08:53 AM 1798 Views
Sul'dam - 27/05/2012 09:03:57 AM 1594 Views
Re: Sul'dam - 27/05/2012 05:54:57 PM 1404 Views
Right, then; here we go.... - 03/06/2012 08:45:20 AM 1241 Views
Re: As much as I would love Moiraine to go with him to Ebou Dar - 23/05/2012 05:28:17 PM 1289 Views
I think I read a fan fiction like that once *NM* - 23/05/2012 08:04:42 PM 717 Views

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