Active Users:204 Time:14/06/2024 12:14:03 AM
Re: Not confused, simply not satisfied with the information we have DomA Send a noteboard - 30/05/2012 03:34:06 PM
It conflicts with logic. It makes no sense that Tigrain would have married into Damodred when a politically far weaker Queen forced Taringail to marry into Trakand.

Neither Tigraine nor Taringail renounced their House when marrying. Once you understand this, things will be clearer.

Renouncing a House to integrate another is something done in Andor under Andoran law. It's not some universal law. It's not done in Saldaea, for instance. It's not done in Carhien either.

Morgase OTOH forced Taringail to marry into House Trakand and to renounce his Cairhienin House (under Andoran law). That didn't make him Trakand by name (it was strictly a matter of choice for him to use the name or not, I would guess. Elayne alluded once she could use the name Damodred the same way if she wished), but he was now an Andoran noble subjected to the High Seat of House Trakand under Andoran law (which clarified his legal position in Andor, and was an attempt to remove his standing within House Damodred in Cairhien. That was meant to but didn't work to stop Laman from using Taringail to plot in Andor. Obviously, Andoran law considered Taringail legally a member of House Trakand subject to Morgase authority as both HS and Queen, while with his marriage to Tigraine he had remained legally a Cairhienin, but this had no legal bearing in Cairhien and with Laman, for whom Taringail was still considered a member of House Damodred). It's never mentionned in the same breath that Morgase forced Taringail to bring his son by Tigraine into House Trakand too, she just formely adopted him, which isn't necessarily the same thing. As there's no real political reason why Morgase would have harshly forced Taringail to agree to the end of his line through Galad - unlike his father he was Andoran by birth already (while there were reasons to marry him into Trakand and have all his offspring from her to be legally born in Trakand), it's fairly unlikely Morgase did that (or that Taringail would have agreed). In any case, officially part of House Trakand by his adoption or not, Galad is allowed by law to keep using his Damodred name. Obviously, those Andorans laws about weddings, belonging to Houses or not, offsprings etc. have no legal bearing whatsoever in Cairhien, as Elayne could get her herself recognized as a valid sion of House Damodred by its High Seat Caraline. No one ever mentionned that the law that excluded Taringail stood in her way, so it sounds like the Law that excluded the consort of a foreign ruler from making a claim has overlooked the specific possibility a foreign ruler of Cairhienin descent coud make a claim too, likely because it was so preposterous no one foresaw a situation in which any Cairhienin House would ever support any such claim by a foreign ruler).

Mordrellen never married Tigraine "into Damodred", she simply didn't require from Taringail he married into House Mantear, and obviously she agreed that his eldest son would retain his Cairhienin name and Cairhienin house, even in Andor. That all most likely had to do with the complex negotiations for this wedding between Mordrellen and Laman (with no doubt the WT behind all this). By this wedding, Andor hoped to put an end to a series of recurrent wars between the two nations. Laman however had far more insidious motives to agree to it and hidden ambitions for Cairhien to grab control of Andor through this wedding. He meant for Taringail to be facto be co-ruler of Andor, and eventually ruler of Andor in his wife's place in all but name (Morgase/Tigraine would have had to change the laws of Andor for Taringail to eventually co-rule or rule officially, which apparently Laman hoped would happen). Elaida and Thom stood in the way of Taringail. They kept Taringail from gaining anywhere close to that kind of influence over Morgase (which in turn blocked Laman's schemes and weakened his prestige in Cairhien enough it became one of the motives why he cut down Avendoraldera to make a new Sun Throne). Taringail got officially appointed First Prince of the Sword, but as far as we know that appointment didn't come with the usual leadership over the Queen's Guard in time of War (it remained with Lord Naldwinn - who was likely Commander under First Prince Bryne in Mordrellen's time, and who died the same week as Laman, and Morgase appointed Mordrellen's former First Prince, Bryne, as Commander of the Guard, under Taringail's nominal/symbolic authority. After Taringail's death, Bryne was appointed again officially First Prince of the Sword, retaining his function as Commander of the Queen's Guard beside).
This message last edited by DomA on 30/05/2012 at 04:36:04 PM
Reply to message
aMoL UK cover and Blurb (SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!) - 21/05/2012 06:44:26 PM 2634 Views
Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 06:46:41 PM 1138 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 08:04:29 PM 1093 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 08:45:41 PM 996 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 09:04:09 PM 1195 Views
*nods in agreement* *NM* - 21/05/2012 10:46:48 PM 383 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 11:08:50 PM 1021 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 22/05/2012 01:02:16 AM 1007 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 21/05/2012 09:35:29 PM 1091 Views
Mat and the madness... - 21/05/2012 10:30:09 PM 1008 Views
Nynaeve's revelation may make the AS even more worried of Rand being mad - 21/05/2012 10:58:37 PM 1053 Views
Not Egwene though... - 21/05/2012 11:02:41 PM 869 Views
Maybe, maybe not ... Nynaeve just gave everyone proof of the extent of his possible madness - 21/05/2012 11:26:41 PM 865 Views
Fair enough. - 21/05/2012 11:31:10 PM 879 Views
Agreed that it's an odd blurb - 21/05/2012 11:45:03 PM 911 Views
Re: Maybe, maybe not ... Nynaeve just gave everyone proof of the extent of his possible madness - 22/05/2012 01:14:05 AM 934 Views
I was thinking about that... - 22/05/2012 02:35:25 AM 835 Views
Re: I was thinking about that... - 22/05/2012 03:41:48 AM 914 Views
Re: Mat and the madness... - 22/05/2012 02:29:31 AM 988 Views
Rand's dreams... - 22/05/2012 02:42:36 AM 898 Views
She assumes he's mad just like most people assume a 19 year old boy is horney - 22/05/2012 03:47:49 AM 1046 Views
I'd like some evidence for this. - 22/05/2012 04:14:27 AM 861 Views
It's still ingrained in the society - 22/05/2012 01:28:05 PM 967 Views
Moridin and the link - 28/05/2012 01:45:43 AM 795 Views
Re: Thoughts... - 23/05/2012 01:06:10 PM 822 Views
What caught my eye there was "Trollocs seize Caemlyn." - 22/05/2012 02:12:25 PM 935 Views
As much as I would love Moiraine to go with him to Ebou Dar - 22/05/2012 07:20:40 PM 999 Views
At this stage, all roads lead to Rand. - 22/05/2012 09:08:42 PM 849 Views
Re: At this stage, all roads lead to Rand. - 23/05/2012 08:07:56 PM 879 Views
Well, like I say, there is no reason they could not ALL meet up with Tuon. - 23/05/2012 08:53:53 PM 859 Views
Re: Well, like I say, there is no reason they could not ALL meet up with Tuon. - 24/05/2012 02:41:55 PM 989 Views
Aviendha's visions from Rhuidean indicate he will kneel... - 24/05/2012 07:04:02 PM 1267 Views
Re: Aviendha's visions from Rhuidean indicate he will kneel... - 26/05/2012 09:42:20 PM 1360 Views
Agreed... - 26/05/2012 09:57:06 PM 965 Views
I think you are extrapolating some of his actions into more than he intends - 26/05/2012 10:37:44 PM 838 Views
Re: Agreed... - 27/05/2012 04:26:15 AM 911 Views
I think you're both wrong... - 27/05/2012 08:41:50 AM 899 Views
Re: I think you're both wrong... - 27/05/2012 07:10:08 PM 915 Views
I can't believe Galad will be accepted as a ruler since he is the Lord Captain Commander - 28/05/2012 02:48:26 AM 902 Views
Re: I can't believe Galad will be accepted as a ruler since he is the Lord Captain Commander - 28/05/2012 04:54:46 PM 841 Views
That makes no sense - 28/05/2012 05:50:16 PM 875 Views
Taringail was Laman's heir... - 28/05/2012 07:20:07 PM 806 Views
You are answering the wrong question - 29/05/2012 02:19:48 PM 812 Views
No. I've answered the exact question. You seem to have missed it. - 29/05/2012 04:40:17 PM 855 Views
Yet not one of these things actually happened - 29/05/2012 10:13:35 PM 846 Views
You're being absurd... - 30/05/2012 01:04:36 AM 810 Views
Explain why Taringail didn't become King after Laman's death then - 30/05/2012 05:48:48 AM 786 Views
- 30/05/2012 06:11:02 AM 785 Views
Why then would Taringail, an ambitious man, renounce a Throne? - 30/05/2012 06:22:08 AM 928 Views
We don't fully know... - 30/05/2012 06:43:30 AM 699 Views
You just flipped your last statement - 30/05/2012 06:55:36 AM 939 Views
You seem extremely confused... - 30/05/2012 09:56:30 AM 863 Views
Not confused, simply not satisfied with the information we have - 30/05/2012 12:15:59 PM 817 Views
Re: Not confused, simply not satisfied with the information we have - 30/05/2012 03:34:06 PM 973 Views
I am not contesting the information we have - 30/05/2012 04:48:08 PM 926 Views
You're impossible... - 30/05/2012 10:02:59 PM 856 Views
Wow ... Not sure what is bringing out the aggression - 30/05/2012 10:19:18 PM 764 Views
*sigh* - 30/05/2012 11:45:28 PM 830 Views
DomA swore *NM* - 31/05/2012 03:39:24 PM 927 Views
Re: That makes no sense - 29/05/2012 04:39:45 PM 996 Views
Only one other thing... - 29/05/2012 04:53:29 PM 721 Views
Re: Only one other thing... - 30/05/2012 12:32:58 PM 788 Views
Bryne was Captain General not First Prince and Taringail was Prince Consort not FP - 30/05/2012 06:07:48 AM 834 Views
Bryne was First Prince Regent. - 30/05/2012 06:19:33 AM 807 Views
Fair enough ... Thanks for providing a quote - 30/05/2012 06:22:52 AM 990 Views
Re: Fair enough ... Thanks for providing a quote - 30/05/2012 04:38:29 PM 863 Views
No he wasn't - 30/05/2012 04:16:02 PM 795 Views
No Forsaken will go near that Ter'angreal - 26/05/2012 10:33:20 PM 760 Views
Re: No Forsaken will go near that Ter'angreal - 27/05/2012 03:23:12 AM 829 Views
Aviendha reprogrammed the ter'angreal - 27/05/2012 01:50:19 PM 797 Views
Re: Aviendha reprogrammed the ter'angreal - 27/05/2012 06:44:41 PM 921 Views
I'd have to re-read to be 100% certain, but the way I read the passage - 28/05/2012 02:10:14 AM 900 Views
He might not literally kneel before the ter'angreal, but almost certainly must meet with Tuon soon. - 25/05/2012 03:40:54 AM 1138 Views
Soon might be relative... - 27/05/2012 02:08:53 AM 1321 Views
Sul'dam - 27/05/2012 09:03:57 AM 1177 Views
Re: Sul'dam - 27/05/2012 05:54:57 PM 907 Views
Right, then; here we go.... - 03/06/2012 08:45:20 AM 784 Views
Re: As much as I would love Moiraine to go with him to Ebou Dar - 23/05/2012 05:28:17 PM 856 Views
I think I read a fan fiction like that once *NM* - 23/05/2012 08:04:42 PM 446 Views

Reply to Message