It doesn't matter that you think the BC is disproved.
darius_sedai Send a noteboard - 02/11/2012 06:07:19 PM
the Author laid it out as a fact of HIS universe. We have to live with it.
Accept the fact that the Forsaken are not that much stronger than everyone else ... as I've stated a million times, they don't HAVE to be ... raw power is nearly a meaningless conversation when the only facts we have are:
1. Lanfear is as strong as a woman can be
2. Morgase is as weak as a woman can be
This means there MUST be an equal number of SD between Morgase and the Mean as there are between Lanfear and the Mean, but it says NOTHING of actual amounts of the Power each level represents. The misstep here is that we are talking about % of total as the same thing as amount of power. Lanfear is 100% of the maximum strength, but can likely handle many hundreds of times the amount of Power Morgase can handle. Moiraine IMO can handle roughly half the volume of Lanfear, but that may not mean she is the Mean on a Bell Curve. She may well be as much higher from the evidence, it's possible that she is several SDs above Mean.
3. Daigian MUST be stronger than about 40% of women and 30% of Men
4. Daigian can handle roughly 1/3 as much saidar as Moiraine
This says nothing about their relative places on the BC since we cannot reliably place either of them. IMO they are probably around the same distance from the Mean but that is purely speculation.
5. Egwene is roughly equal to Amys and Melaine combined.
This makes her somewhere along the lines of 1.75x Moiraine in terms of volume of saidar she can wield, but again, there is no way to know where she falls on the BC aside from the evidence in the books which makes her an outlier of more than 2 SD from the Mean. This also means that she is probably as rare as a woman like Alise or Sorilea who are also outliers on the weaker side of the Curve.
No math formula is going to magically make all of the tidbits we have work. But I will stick to the author's quote on the existence of a BC as he is in effect "god" in terms of WoT.
Accept the fact that the Forsaken are not that much stronger than everyone else ... as I've stated a million times, they don't HAVE to be ... raw power is nearly a meaningless conversation when the only facts we have are:
1. Lanfear is as strong as a woman can be
2. Morgase is as weak as a woman can be
This means there MUST be an equal number of SD between Morgase and the Mean as there are between Lanfear and the Mean, but it says NOTHING of actual amounts of the Power each level represents. The misstep here is that we are talking about % of total as the same thing as amount of power. Lanfear is 100% of the maximum strength, but can likely handle many hundreds of times the amount of Power Morgase can handle. Moiraine IMO can handle roughly half the volume of Lanfear, but that may not mean she is the Mean on a Bell Curve. She may well be as much higher from the evidence, it's possible that she is several SDs above Mean.
3. Daigian MUST be stronger than about 40% of women and 30% of Men
4. Daigian can handle roughly 1/3 as much saidar as Moiraine
This says nothing about their relative places on the BC since we cannot reliably place either of them. IMO they are probably around the same distance from the Mean but that is purely speculation.
5. Egwene is roughly equal to Amys and Melaine combined.
This makes her somewhere along the lines of 1.75x Moiraine in terms of volume of saidar she can wield, but again, there is no way to know where she falls on the BC aside from the evidence in the books which makes her an outlier of more than 2 SD from the Mean. This also means that she is probably as rare as a woman like Alise or Sorilea who are also outliers on the weaker side of the Curve.
No math formula is going to magically make all of the tidbits we have work. But I will stick to the author's quote on the existence of a BC as he is in effect "god" in terms of WoT.
Domani Drag Queen in the White Tower ... Aran'gar watch out!
This message last edited by darius_sedai on 02/11/2012 at 10:47:14 PM
Addressing problems with the Bell Curve
- 31/10/2012 11:30:42 AM
1715 Views
Who said RJ created a 100 point scale? I always assumed we did to make this easier to follow
- 31/10/2012 02:22:51 PM
1053 Views
One more point here
- 31/10/2012 03:02:34 PM
914 Views
I've think I've finally done it. I've solved the entire Curve. Daigian is the key...
- 01/11/2012 09:20:57 AM
1171 Views
Did some playing with your numbers to make this work better
- 01/11/2012 02:13:00 PM
1140 Views
The Mean and SD are set by Daigian's position. Your options are therefore not possible...
- 02/11/2012 07:49:24 AM
1104 Views
Yet you have many more SD between the Mean and Lanfear than you do Morgase and the Mean
- 02/11/2012 02:39:51 PM
915 Views
I absolutely agree. The lower side of the curve MUST be intersected by zero after 1 SD...
- 02/11/2012 03:03:52 PM
818 Views
I am not convinced Moiraine is the Mean. Merely 50% of Lanfear
- 02/11/2012 04:23:57 PM
994 Views
But on a Bell Curve the Mean IS 50% of Lanfear. You've just disproven your own contention.
- 02/11/2012 04:40:31 PM
892 Views
OMG no it is NOT!
- 02/11/2012 05:16:36 PM
805 Views
I agree with that. But please honestly look at the math I presented. It disproves the Bell Curve.
- 02/11/2012 05:24:41 PM
1109 Views
It doesn't matter that you think the BC is disproved.
- 02/11/2012 06:07:19 PM
948 Views
Confusing post...
- 02/11/2012 06:30:40 PM
1015 Views
If you choose to ignore the author go right ahead. I just think you are wrong
- 02/11/2012 09:05:14 PM
1008 Views
Re: It doesn't matter that you think the BC is disproved.
- 02/11/2012 07:11:57 PM
978 Views
I think the number is about 10
- 03/11/2012 08:42:08 AM
1012 Views
Nope
- 03/11/2012 04:14:45 PM
940 Views
Re: Nope
- 03/11/2012 04:39:07 PM
963 Views
Verin and Graendal each have angreal of unkown strength
- 03/11/2012 06:15:49 PM
941 Views
Re: Addressing problems with the Bell Curve
- 01/11/2012 06:23:07 PM
970 Views
Re: Addressing problems with the Bell Curve
- 01/11/2012 09:48:04 PM
944 Views
I'll have to disagree with much of this
- 03/11/2012 07:46:31 AM
1003 Views
Why do you always think Strength is the point
- 03/11/2012 04:35:26 PM
760 Views
I don't - I merely appreciate it as a factor
- 03/11/2012 04:48:24 PM
863 Views
0 Evidence? Cyndane v. Alivia is plenty of evidence EDIT with exact quote
- 03/11/2012 06:17:39 PM
894 Views
One other thing you have forgotten about
- 03/11/2012 10:13:09 PM
860 Views
Your agenda blinds you to logic yet again...As I'll simply demonstrate with your example here...
- 03/11/2012 11:08:13 PM
912 Views
Nope, the only experience she has in reality is against Rand
- 03/11/2012 11:09:54 PM
834 Views
Nonsense.
- 03/11/2012 11:11:05 PM
848 Views
Believe as you will
- 03/11/2012 11:26:50 PM
1011 Views
That's a classic.
- 04/11/2012 12:06:13 AM
885 Views
You misquote on a regular basis and have no grasp of the timeline in the series
- 04/11/2012 01:36:37 AM
772 Views
Hmm...
- 04/11/2012 07:08:04 AM
1100 Views
stop getting all indignant ... I'm really not trying to be nasty to you
- 04/11/2012 04:20:06 PM
914 Views
Reply to your EDIT: I think YOU have a totally warped perspective, based on what you wish for.
- 03/11/2012 11:16:29 PM
885 Views
Funny that's exactly how I see your perspective
- 03/11/2012 11:25:52 PM
873 Views
I don't need to interpret the following in any way other than the obvious to get the picture...
- 04/11/2012 12:17:53 AM
2434 Views
as usual you miss that there is a timeline and strength growth throughout the series *NM*
- 04/11/2012 01:47:41 AM
389 Views
