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You've tried too hard... DomA Send a noteboard - 05/11/2012 07:53:41 PM
We have two sets of paramaters set by Jordan.

First by the mid to late series he answered a question about it that we could figure out who both Demandred and Mesaana were hidden as.

We know from the few clues about Danelle that he was telling the truth. We could get lucky, spot the clues and figure it out. It didn't rest on solid facts, but we could still suspect it was Danelle based on flimsy clues and turn out to be right.

The same must be true for Demandred.

That rules out Amel, who was never mentionned before KOD. And he rose to prominence following a series of events Demandred could not possibly control. A lot of your "suspicious" stuff about Zaida isn't suspicious at all, you just overlook politics. Had Mat seen Harine, she would have looked as acting just as weirdly as he found Zaida to be acting strangely. It's not any deep mystery: women of Zaida and Harine's rank are almost never seen. They're the next thing to the Mistress of Ships. It was unique that they lead embassies on the land, and the reason for this exceptional event was plain and simple, they were the embassies to the Coramoor...

You overlooked the political contest between Zaida and Harine. Both had to be the one succeeding at making a Bargain with Rand. Harine won, but her Bargain was very onerous and Zaida got the advantage of learning earlier about the death of the MoS and to play all this against Harine.

It's as simple as that. The Sea Folk have no real army. They never needed one, their islands are almost unreachable except for their own ships, and if attacked at sea or at home, they can fall back on Windfinders and leave no survivors to tell the tale... When organized military faced them, they were fairly easily defeated. They lost an island to the Seanchan, and at Ebou Dar they did damage by surprise but the damane got the upper hand pretty fast. The husband of a captain (by whatever name) is in charge of Trade and protecting the goods and the traders. What you call "an army" is more akin to merchant's guards. He has not authority whatsoever over the Windfinders, who are strictly under the female hierarchy.

It's not enough for Demandred to "have an army". He needs a way to either turn it against the Light (fat chance of that with the likes of SF, Aiel etc.) or use them in a proxy war. Aside from the Seanchan, the Sea Folk have no enemies, and they're proven not to be any match to the damane, so what would be the point?

The other point is that Amel, if not by name, has showed up on screen in that scene where Mat saw him. Jordan said we never saw Demandred in disguise on screen (that was valid up to KOD). Brandon confirmed we haven't seen him in TGS/TOM either.

There are few, very few characters fitting the criteria, and the only one who makes sense among them is Roedran. I've fought against the idea for years but have given up. The clues are slightly better than those for Danelle, but they are there. Toward ACOS (or POD?), reports that Roedran had changed and was becoming clever showed up. He's developped an interest for old war treatises (that's Demandred learning all he can about third age tactics...).

All that was left to make sense of this is to figure out Demandred doesn't intend to use the Murandian to get himself an army. The Murandians won't fight for the Shadow. He intends to use the Murandians to start a conflict detrimental to the Light, and draw into it as much of Rand's forces as he can. Demandred will provoke a War between Murandy/Andor and the Seanchan. He will offer his armies to Elayne to deal with the Shadowspawn and make an alliance for them to act together should the Seanchan attack either of them. Then he will bait the Seanchan into attacking him (there are dozens of ways he could achieve that), and draw Elayne, her cannons, the Band, her armies into that conflict. This is the biggest single force of the Light distracted at the wrong time. Once he's dealt with the Seanchan or during the war, Demandred will seize Elayne, unveil himself and draw Rand's forces into the maelstrom, the Shadow's armies ready to strike.

The flaw in Demandred's plans is the Prince of Ravens, he's not expecting that Mat through events will rise to leadership of the Seanchan armies. The Light will survive the "Great Battle", and out of it the Seanchan and the other half of the Light will emerge as allies against the Shadow.

Demandred already has armies: millions if not billions of Shadowspawn, with plenty of Myrrdraal ready to force them to follow all his orders. He no doubts has plenty of those hidden in the South, ready to strike at the Seanchan in Ebou Dar and at all their other military posts (Illian, Amador etc. as soon as they commit enough troops to his "Murandian War".

If he has Dreadlords serving him, they won't be Taim's, The BT is a decoy within a decoy, an army hidden within Rand's army but not well hidden enough... Demandred's forces will rather consist of a selection of Taim's recruits who have not joined the BT but have gone elsewhere after testing positive, and who now have joined fairly recently the Legion of the Dragon. A force of well-trained male channelers ready to strike by surprise at his orders, and right among Rand's forces, and lead by one of his best and most valuable general (one who has "something dark" in his future...). We'll see if the BA will join his channellers after their betrayal, or if they have been merged with Taim's forces (the latter, IMO).




This message last edited by DomA on 05/11/2012 at 08:11:01 PM
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[Mik's Warp] - Demandred is.....*click to find out* - 05/11/2012 01:06:42 PM 2637 Views
There are only 2 months left before AMOL comes out (or less)... - 05/11/2012 02:10:07 PM 1221 Views
Nah.. forget that - 05/11/2012 08:29:53 PM 1073 Views
Re: Nah.. forget that - 05/11/2012 10:07:46 PM 925 Views
Re: There are only 2 months left before AMOL comes out (or less)... - 06/11/2012 12:40:54 PM 1117 Views
I'm not saying it's not a well-reasoned theory; it is. - 06/11/2012 06:02:36 PM 1097 Views
I say Roederan is a better choice simply because of where he is located - 06/11/2012 11:01:28 PM 1006 Views
Re: I say Roederan is a better choice simply because of where he is located - 07/11/2012 09:42:00 AM 1251 Views
I applaud your effort, but to be honest I just can't see it - 07/11/2012 04:48:17 PM 909 Views
Re: I applaud your effort, but to be honest I just can't see it - 07/11/2012 08:36:34 PM 1157 Views
There has been a lot of waste in WOT..... - 06/11/2012 06:26:56 PM 837 Views
LIKE! *NM* - 09/12/2012 02:37:49 PM 987 Views
Whoops *NM* - 06/11/2012 07:27:06 PM 515 Views
Plausible, albeit antilclimactic *NM* - 05/11/2012 06:32:38 PM 565 Views
Unless Mat is Demandred, at this point it will be anticlimactic. *NM* - 06/11/2012 04:02:38 AM 531 Views
That would be EPIC *NM* - 06/11/2012 07:53:30 PM 539 Views
That would be EPIC *NM* - 06/11/2012 07:53:31 PM 533 Views
You've tried too hard... - 05/11/2012 07:53:41 PM 2713 Views
Will be so disappointed if the Shadow's greatest (non-crazy) leader is defeated by Mr Happy Go Lucky - 05/11/2012 08:57:59 PM 1054 Views
I doubt Mat will kill him personally but - 05/11/2012 09:24:48 PM 824 Views
I don't know - 06/11/2012 02:01:41 AM 826 Views
My prediction of how it plays out... - 06/11/2012 07:12:15 AM 931 Views
I don't think that's likely - 06/11/2012 06:04:55 PM 900 Views
LOL ... it will be a saying in the next Age - 06/11/2012 10:36:04 PM 834 Views
Re: I don't think that's likely - 06/11/2012 11:21:21 PM 824 Views
Re: I don't think that's likely - 07/11/2012 08:14:28 PM 939 Views
Re: I don't think that's likely - 07/11/2012 09:05:07 PM 1047 Views
Re: I don't think that's likely - 08/11/2012 05:52:16 PM 884 Views
It sounds like we're at the same stage of vision of the AOL - 08/11/2012 07:48:17 PM 824 Views
Statistics refute some of that... - 09/11/2012 07:35:59 AM 834 Views
We're not talking about the same things... - 09/11/2012 11:31:12 PM 826 Views
It doesn't mean no one in this Age can be at Talented or Intelligent. - 09/11/2012 11:43:26 PM 1012 Views
Re: It doesn't mean no one in this Age can be at Talented or Intelligent. - 10/11/2012 07:34:34 AM 933 Views
You seriously believe that? - 10/11/2012 04:17:09 PM 868 Views
Mat has grown quiet a bit since those days - 06/11/2012 01:55:48 AM 969 Views
You're putting the Evil on a pedestal. - 06/11/2012 03:12:38 AM 756 Views
No, just desperately trying to raise the stakes a bit... - 06/11/2012 07:00:59 AM 881 Views
That's essentially what I was saying - 06/11/2012 03:35:45 PM 1008 Views
hmmm - 06/11/2012 10:27:00 AM 1142 Views
... is defeated by Mr Happy Go Lucky - 06/11/2012 08:45:02 PM 990 Views
Mat is essentially the man (men) who wrote the books Demandred studied - 06/11/2012 10:42:40 PM 807 Views
Exactly... - 06/11/2012 11:45:36 PM 974 Views
... is defeated by Mr Happy Go Lucky - 06/11/2012 08:45:29 PM 1032 Views
I didn't try hard at all; Demandred found me... - 06/11/2012 03:31:41 PM 982 Views
My biggest contention with Demandred being with the Sea Folk - 06/11/2012 10:54:50 PM 967 Views
Re: My biggest contention with Demandred being with the Sea Folk - 07/11/2012 12:07:02 AM 989 Views
Well, it instantly gives the Shadow access to attacking every coastal city... - 07/11/2012 10:32:23 AM 872 Views
Exactly! - 07/11/2012 10:54:14 AM 1412 Views
If he married Nynaeve and Moiraine he'd have his wives at Rand's side in the Pit too.... - 07/11/2012 03:28:38 PM 847 Views
I find that approach unnecessarily convoluted. Just hit them with 1 billion Trollocs and crush them. - 08/11/2012 07:00:36 AM 835 Views
Not likely he has that many... - 08/11/2012 03:00:32 PM 772 Views
May I ask some practical questions? - 08/11/2012 05:28:41 PM 780 Views
Re: May I ask some practical questions? - 08/11/2012 10:35:38 PM 909 Views
Re: May I ask some practical questions? - 10/11/2012 12:09:15 AM 850 Views
Re: May I ask some practical questions? - 10/11/2012 03:11:59 AM 842 Views
LOL ... Seems more than a little far fetched *NM* - 10/11/2012 06:17:34 AM 478 Views
Well you asked for an explanation - 13/11/2012 10:23:41 PM 757 Views
fair enough *NM* - 14/11/2012 01:31:52 AM 445 Views
Re: May I ask some practical questions? - 10/11/2012 07:15:58 PM 898 Views
Exactly! - 11/11/2012 07:38:46 AM 899 Views
Good practical questions... - 09/11/2012 07:24:14 AM 865 Views
He doesn't need the SF for that - 09/11/2012 03:00:34 PM 648 Views
Well, they hadn't planned on them being Traveling grounds as they didn't know about - 09/11/2012 02:57:16 PM 726 Views
Re: Well, they hadn't planned on them being Traveling grounds as they didn't know about - 09/11/2012 09:03:14 PM 834 Views
I know. I'm saying they were not doing this with Traveling in mind. - 09/11/2012 11:57:34 PM 828 Views
Re: I know. I'm saying they were not doing this with Traveling in mind. - 10/11/2012 10:08:04 PM 2327 Views
I see what you are getting at ... And I see how Zaida used it to her advantage - 11/11/2012 07:45:19 AM 888 Views
Re: I see what you are getting at ... And I see how Zaida used it to her advantage - 12/11/2012 02:57:08 PM 884 Views
Nesta sent 2 ambassadors to the Coramoor. Both looking for the same thing - 12/11/2012 04:11:50 PM 923 Views
Re: Nesta sent 2 ambassadors to the Coramoor. Both looking for the same thing - 12/11/2012 06:01:33 PM 1016 Views
Well there is also the fact that Harine pretty much tells us she MUST make a Bargain - 12/11/2012 06:51:24 PM 1051 Views
Re: Well there is also the fact that Harine pretty much tells us she MUST make a Bargain - 12/11/2012 09:30:57 PM 838 Views
Not to belabor the point - 12/11/2012 10:56:39 PM 791 Views
Re: Not to belabor the point - 13/11/2012 12:46:21 AM 743 Views
I think you are way off base on the economics - 13/11/2012 01:24:35 AM 710 Views
Re: I think you are way off base on the economics - 13/11/2012 03:48:40 PM 831 Views
no reason to *NM* - 14/11/2012 01:35:55 AM 466 Views
I don't see the problem... - 07/11/2012 10:52:49 AM 1557 Views
This is preposterous - 07/11/2012 04:15:11 PM 1254 Views
Who? - 06/11/2012 07:29:46 PM 797 Views
Paah, he's clearly on the Isle of Madmen to the south. - 10/11/2012 03:28:26 AM 1194 Views

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