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You can't have it both ways.... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 02/10/2009 06:47:21 AM

I'm saying they're generally difficult to kill, which they are. But the Forsaken themselves haven't managed to kill a single major protagonist. Sorry, I don't care that there's anarchy in Seanchan, or that Eben and Cabriana died. We're intimately involved with the main characters and our emotions are seated with them. There's nothing more poignant than Rand recalling fallen comrades who died fighting these people - but we'll never see that now, unless Leah gets your heart going. Too bad, you'd have to have your head read to join the Shadow... apart from the obvious reasons. Nynaeve can rest assured - with almost every Forsaken dead, and every darkfriend dead in a grave, she's the safest woman in the world.

Either they are competent and capable or lame. Just because you don't have an emotional response to the results of their competence, you cannot call them lame!

Fair enough, you don't care about millions of deaths, you want a few deaths among the fifteen or so major characters you're reading about. The rest of the deaths are insignificant to you. But a Forsaken's, or any villains, competence can hardly depend on the number of people he kills who you care about!

RJ has chosen, so far, to not have any of the major protagonists killed. Personally, I don't see why they have to die to make the story interesting, but that's a personal preference. You can criticize RJ for not having major characters killed. But why heap scorn and blame on the Forsaken? Many of them have died after exciting fights where they've certainly done a great job, and it is a combination of unfortunate (for them) circumstances that lead to their defeats.

And while you don't care, they have also spread chaos in the world, resulting in who knows how many deaths.

And all this despite being in a world that is far removed from the one they grew up in and having access to none of the technology they are used to.
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Are women really bad generals? Sidious - 01/10/2009 07:05:03 PM 1699 Views
I think that all we can conclude from this... Rand al'Thor - 01/10/2009 07:39:49 PM 960 Views
No. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 01/10/2009 07:41:35 PM 1134 Views
Or RJ just loves stacking ridiculously unfavourable odds against the male Forsaken generals... Shannow - 01/10/2009 08:40:47 PM 1206 Views
Lol... too true Sidious - 01/10/2009 09:32:29 PM 1125 Views
And you guys whine about the lameness of RJ's villains? fionwe1987 - 01/10/2009 09:41:54 PM 1202 Views
I still haven't seen proof of Demandred or Ishamael's "brilliance". RugbyPlayingAshaman - 01/10/2009 09:56:41 PM 934 Views
Ishamael's destroyed Civilization twice Rurouni_Kenshin - 02/10/2009 04:25:37 AM 914 Views
Re: Ishamael's destroyed Civilization twice RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 03:48:13 PM 826 Views
but you are difficult to please Sidious - 02/10/2009 05:10:13 AM 900 Views
Re: but you are difficult to please RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 03:46:56 PM 869 Views
Re: but you are difficult to please Sidious - 03/10/2009 06:17:21 AM 840 Views
But they are lame... they've done minimal damage to the Light Sidious - 02/10/2009 05:06:05 AM 835 Views
You can't have it both ways.... fionwe1987 - 02/10/2009 06:47:21 AM 929 Views
Why not? Sidious - 02/10/2009 08:45:35 AM 895 Views
Re: Why not? fionwe1987 - 02/10/2009 04:27:00 PM 820 Views
Re: Why not? Sidious - 03/10/2009 06:34:16 AM 899 Views
Re: Why not? fionwe1987 - 03/10/2009 07:40:16 AM 876 Views
Re: Why not? Sidious - 03/10/2009 05:07:51 PM 846 Views
Yeah Etzel - 01/10/2009 09:57:01 PM 917 Views
Re: Yeah nossy - 01/10/2009 10:40:28 PM 907 Views
I thought the same in the past... Etzel - 02/10/2009 07:01:18 AM 875 Views
Gah! Hate! nossy - 02/10/2009 04:11:49 PM 893 Views
Ah, come on... Etzel - 02/10/2009 04:41:37 PM 870 Views
No no, I was just being pouty that I haven't read the new stuff yet. nossy - 02/10/2009 05:01:15 PM 875 Views
Yeah, I can understand that! Etzel - 03/10/2009 12:23:25 PM 721 Views
Unless... Fanatic-Templar - 01/10/2009 10:49:55 PM 941 Views
Re: Unless... Sidious - 02/10/2009 05:07:14 AM 980 Views
Well, it's entirely hypothetical, Fanatic-Templar - 02/10/2009 06:31:32 AM 844 Views
Re: Or RJ just loves stacking ridiculously unfavourable odds against the male Forsaken generals... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 01/10/2009 09:51:30 PM 973 Views
What about Mat and Ituralde? Rurouni_Kenshin - 02/10/2009 04:28:49 AM 923 Views
Re: What about Mat and Ituralde? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 03:52:24 PM 837 Views
Good points! Also, these "generals" haven't actually fielded any troops beetnemesis - 01/10/2009 11:23:40 PM 842 Views
Further... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 12:14:44 AM 884 Views
But as individuals they are meant to be deadly too Sidious - 02/10/2009 05:09:21 AM 828 Views
Just one point ^_^ RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/10/2009 12:51:50 AM 861 Views
Well, yeah. They're knowledgable and deadly in person. Generalship doesn't come into it. beetnemesis - 04/10/2009 12:09:50 AM 828 Views
nope nossy - 01/10/2009 08:06:57 PM 1006 Views
Re: nope Sidious - 01/10/2009 09:32:38 PM 1065 Views
Tylee Kirgan, Birgitte, and one other, Egeanin NaClH2O - 01/10/2009 09:47:00 PM 1279 Views
Birgitte's not a soldier though. Darth_Katie - 01/10/2009 10:10:50 PM 862 Views
She says she's not, but so does Mat. nossy - 01/10/2009 10:34:04 PM 774 Views
Mat's not a soldier, either - he's a general RugbyPlayingAshaman - 01/10/2009 10:51:29 PM 908 Views
Right, which was what we were discussing at first. nossy - 02/10/2009 04:13:43 PM 848 Views
Yeah, I'm supporting your point about them both being generals RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 06:10:31 PM 890 Views
true, but she does pretty good NaClH2O - 02/10/2009 01:06:03 AM 921 Views
Oooh I forgot she's in charge of Elayne's lady guards. Darth_Katie - 02/10/2009 03:22:57 AM 796 Views
Egeanin or Leilwin nossy - 01/10/2009 10:35:53 PM 998 Views
A ship captain is like a calvary general NaClH2O - 02/10/2009 01:24:37 AM 854 Views
Right. Cannoli - 02/10/2009 01:36:59 AM 852 Views
Well said. (And its short and to the point.) RabidWombat - 02/10/2009 03:54:23 AM 982 Views
Birgitte is too cautious to be better than an adequate tactician. RabidWombat - 02/10/2009 04:22:45 AM 906 Views
Isn't this more of an outgrowth or her respective specialty? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 07/10/2009 08:40:46 PM 824 Views
My opinion Cannoli - 02/10/2009 01:30:12 AM 1318 Views
That's a poor excuse rAndy aL - 02/10/2009 11:59:42 AM 808 Views
That's a poor argument Cannoli - 02/10/2009 04:02:53 PM 1068 Views
Re: That's a poor argument rAndy aL - 03/10/2009 04:26:55 AM 880 Views
I disagree nossy - 02/10/2009 04:26:28 PM 890 Views
Re: I disagree Cannoli - 02/10/2009 08:31:29 PM 1133 Views
Oh, puh-lease. nossy - 02/10/2009 09:09:30 PM 1048 Views
Re: Oh, puh-lease. Cannoli - 03/10/2009 04:52:37 PM 874 Views
Re: Oh, puh-lease. NaClH2O - 03/10/2009 08:26:27 PM 771 Views
Re: Oh, puh-lease. nossy - 05/10/2009 05:08:27 PM 3344 Views
I always know I've out-argued an idiot when they fall back on the tired old "RJ wanted it that way" Cannoli - 06/10/2009 04:42:11 AM 942 Views
And I can tell you're through when you've gotten to three+ insults per paragraph. nossy - 06/10/2009 05:46:24 PM 1025 Views
um nossy - 08/10/2009 07:36:52 PM 1168 Views
Monday morning quarterbacking at its worst RabidWombat - 04/10/2009 07:28:36 AM 983 Views
Men and football. nossy - 05/10/2009 04:49:35 PM 908 Views
She didn't kill anyone! Why SHOULD she feel guilty? She gave necessary orders. Cannoli - 06/10/2009 03:33:15 AM 978 Views
It's the only thing men are allowed to do in Randland CupofDice - 02/10/2009 03:09:19 AM 919 Views
My thoughts LordPerrin - 02/10/2009 03:12:46 PM 804 Views
.... Fantasy - 04/10/2009 03:38:44 AM 818 Views
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