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You can't have it both ways.... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 02/10/2009 06:47:21 AM

I'm saying they're generally difficult to kill, which they are. But the Forsaken themselves haven't managed to kill a single major protagonist. Sorry, I don't care that there's anarchy in Seanchan, or that Eben and Cabriana died. We're intimately involved with the main characters and our emotions are seated with them. There's nothing more poignant than Rand recalling fallen comrades who died fighting these people - but we'll never see that now, unless Leah gets your heart going. Too bad, you'd have to have your head read to join the Shadow... apart from the obvious reasons. Nynaeve can rest assured - with almost every Forsaken dead, and every darkfriend dead in a grave, she's the safest woman in the world.

Either they are competent and capable or lame. Just because you don't have an emotional response to the results of their competence, you cannot call them lame!

Fair enough, you don't care about millions of deaths, you want a few deaths among the fifteen or so major characters you're reading about. The rest of the deaths are insignificant to you. But a Forsaken's, or any villains, competence can hardly depend on the number of people he kills who you care about!

RJ has chosen, so far, to not have any of the major protagonists killed. Personally, I don't see why they have to die to make the story interesting, but that's a personal preference. You can criticize RJ for not having major characters killed. But why heap scorn and blame on the Forsaken? Many of them have died after exciting fights where they've certainly done a great job, and it is a combination of unfortunate (for them) circumstances that lead to their defeats.

And while you don't care, they have also spread chaos in the world, resulting in who knows how many deaths.

And all this despite being in a world that is far removed from the one they grew up in and having access to none of the technology they are used to.
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Are women really bad generals? Sidious - 01/10/2009 07:05:03 PM 1849 Views
I think that all we can conclude from this... Rand al'Thor - 01/10/2009 07:39:49 PM 1030 Views
No. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 01/10/2009 07:41:35 PM 1225 Views
Or RJ just loves stacking ridiculously unfavourable odds against the male Forsaken generals... Shannow - 01/10/2009 08:40:47 PM 1289 Views
Lol... too true Sidious - 01/10/2009 09:32:29 PM 1193 Views
And you guys whine about the lameness of RJ's villains? fionwe1987 - 01/10/2009 09:41:54 PM 1282 Views
I still haven't seen proof of Demandred or Ishamael's "brilliance". RugbyPlayingAshaman - 01/10/2009 09:56:41 PM 1008 Views
Ishamael's destroyed Civilization twice Rurouni_Kenshin - 02/10/2009 04:25:37 AM 987 Views
Re: Ishamael's destroyed Civilization twice RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 03:48:13 PM 905 Views
but you are difficult to please Sidious - 02/10/2009 05:10:13 AM 974 Views
Re: but you are difficult to please RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 03:46:56 PM 938 Views
Re: but you are difficult to please Sidious - 03/10/2009 06:17:21 AM 906 Views
But they are lame... they've done minimal damage to the Light Sidious - 02/10/2009 05:06:05 AM 910 Views
You can't have it both ways.... fionwe1987 - 02/10/2009 06:47:21 AM 1005 Views
Why not? Sidious - 02/10/2009 08:45:35 AM 962 Views
Re: Why not? fionwe1987 - 02/10/2009 04:27:00 PM 910 Views
Re: Why not? Sidious - 03/10/2009 06:34:16 AM 978 Views
Re: Why not? fionwe1987 - 03/10/2009 07:40:16 AM 964 Views
Re: Why not? Sidious - 03/10/2009 05:07:51 PM 936 Views
Yeah Etzel - 01/10/2009 09:57:01 PM 985 Views
Re: Yeah nossy - 01/10/2009 10:40:28 PM 969 Views
I thought the same in the past... Etzel - 02/10/2009 07:01:18 AM 944 Views
Gah! Hate! nossy - 02/10/2009 04:11:49 PM 960 Views
Ah, come on... Etzel - 02/10/2009 04:41:37 PM 941 Views
No no, I was just being pouty that I haven't read the new stuff yet. nossy - 02/10/2009 05:01:15 PM 941 Views
Yeah, I can understand that! Etzel - 03/10/2009 12:23:25 PM 782 Views
Unless... Fanatic-Templar - 01/10/2009 10:49:55 PM 1032 Views
Re: Unless... Sidious - 02/10/2009 05:07:14 AM 1046 Views
Well, it's entirely hypothetical, Fanatic-Templar - 02/10/2009 06:31:32 AM 916 Views
Re: Or RJ just loves stacking ridiculously unfavourable odds against the male Forsaken generals... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 01/10/2009 09:51:30 PM 1043 Views
What about Mat and Ituralde? Rurouni_Kenshin - 02/10/2009 04:28:49 AM 990 Views
Re: What about Mat and Ituralde? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 03:52:24 PM 902 Views
Good points! Also, these "generals" haven't actually fielded any troops beetnemesis - 01/10/2009 11:23:40 PM 928 Views
Further... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 12:14:44 AM 949 Views
But as individuals they are meant to be deadly too Sidious - 02/10/2009 05:09:21 AM 896 Views
Just one point ^_^ RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/10/2009 12:51:50 AM 930 Views
Well, yeah. They're knowledgable and deadly in person. Generalship doesn't come into it. beetnemesis - 04/10/2009 12:09:50 AM 900 Views
nope nossy - 01/10/2009 08:06:57 PM 1099 Views
Re: nope Sidious - 01/10/2009 09:32:38 PM 1140 Views
Tylee Kirgan, Birgitte, and one other, Egeanin NaClH2O - 01/10/2009 09:47:00 PM 1351 Views
Birgitte's not a soldier though. Darth_Katie - 01/10/2009 10:10:50 PM 936 Views
She says she's not, but so does Mat. nossy - 01/10/2009 10:34:04 PM 848 Views
Mat's not a soldier, either - he's a general RugbyPlayingAshaman - 01/10/2009 10:51:29 PM 975 Views
Right, which was what we were discussing at first. nossy - 02/10/2009 04:13:43 PM 911 Views
Yeah, I'm supporting your point about them both being generals RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 06:10:31 PM 979 Views
true, but she does pretty good NaClH2O - 02/10/2009 01:06:03 AM 985 Views
Oooh I forgot she's in charge of Elayne's lady guards. Darth_Katie - 02/10/2009 03:22:57 AM 863 Views
Egeanin or Leilwin nossy - 01/10/2009 10:35:53 PM 1099 Views
A ship captain is like a calvary general NaClH2O - 02/10/2009 01:24:37 AM 921 Views
Right. Cannoli - 02/10/2009 01:36:59 AM 914 Views
Well said. (And its short and to the point.) RabidWombat - 02/10/2009 03:54:23 AM 1046 Views
Birgitte is too cautious to be better than an adequate tactician. RabidWombat - 02/10/2009 04:22:45 AM 987 Views
Isn't this more of an outgrowth or her respective specialty? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 07/10/2009 08:40:46 PM 891 Views
My opinion Cannoli - 02/10/2009 01:30:12 AM 1433 Views
That's a poor excuse rAndy aL - 02/10/2009 11:59:42 AM 876 Views
That's a poor argument Cannoli - 02/10/2009 04:02:53 PM 1167 Views
Re: That's a poor argument rAndy aL - 03/10/2009 04:26:55 AM 982 Views
I disagree nossy - 02/10/2009 04:26:28 PM 980 Views
Re: I disagree Cannoli - 02/10/2009 08:31:29 PM 1198 Views
Oh, puh-lease. nossy - 02/10/2009 09:09:30 PM 1138 Views
Re: Oh, puh-lease. Cannoli - 03/10/2009 04:52:37 PM 961 Views
Re: Oh, puh-lease. NaClH2O - 03/10/2009 08:26:27 PM 842 Views
Re: Oh, puh-lease. nossy - 05/10/2009 05:08:27 PM 3428 Views
I always know I've out-argued an idiot when they fall back on the tired old "RJ wanted it that way" Cannoli - 06/10/2009 04:42:11 AM 1043 Views
And I can tell you're through when you've gotten to three+ insults per paragraph. nossy - 06/10/2009 05:46:24 PM 1108 Views
um nossy - 08/10/2009 07:36:52 PM 1255 Views
Monday morning quarterbacking at its worst RabidWombat - 04/10/2009 07:28:36 AM 1051 Views
Men and football. nossy - 05/10/2009 04:49:35 PM 1007 Views
She didn't kill anyone! Why SHOULD she feel guilty? She gave necessary orders. Cannoli - 06/10/2009 03:33:15 AM 1064 Views
It's the only thing men are allowed to do in Randland CupofDice - 02/10/2009 03:09:19 AM 1003 Views
My thoughts LordPerrin - 02/10/2009 03:12:46 PM 885 Views
.... Fantasy - 04/10/2009 03:38:44 AM 905 Views
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