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Men and football. nossy Send a noteboard - 05/10/2009 04:49:35 PM
I am sorry but this is Monday morning quarterbacking at its worst. There is no way to know whether or not your method, given after the fact, would have worked any better. This is especially true since we have no idea how the other BA got there.

I don't understand why you are faulting Elayne for trusting the information about there only being two BA. (In my estimation that information ended up being true. The first group of BA obviously did not know the others were coming.) Lan said it best when he stated that a portion of courage is going forward even when you know you don't know all of the information.

She did absolutely no reconnaissance other than what she received from Hark, who she had known for five minutes. I don't object to her taking action, I object to her rushing into a situation she make no effort to assess for herself. Black Ajah are not just a group of dark friends. I mean, seriously, even if there were only two there, what about wards, traps, any number of things? I can't believe I'm the only one who thinks that this was ridiculous, the way she went in there. She and her group looked at the house only long enough for Jaem to scout the outside. I'm not a pansy, but the thought of going in there w/o any kind of surety is enough to floor me.

Finally, I don't know why you are getting on Elayne's case about taking a risk with herself. Rand's risks make Elayne's look like a walk in the park. (And Rand risks the whole world when he risks himself.) For example in WH there is an, in my mind deliberate, parallel to this event when Rand raids the dark Asha'man place in Far Madding. Yet Rand's risk is FAR madder then Elayne's for he is informed by an unknown source AND there is reason to suspect there might be two more renegade Asha'man there beside them. And this is one of the smaller of Rand's mad risk taking. Twice he chases Forsaken into T'A'R and once he chased Samaael into Shadar Logoth. If you are going to get on Elayne's case then at least do the same for Rand.

I'm not on Elayne about risking herself. I'm on Elayne about risking all the other people with her without any better surveillance. I'm on Elayne about being so cock-sure that she'll be fine because her babies will be healthy that she didn't stop to think that "healthy" only means one very limited thing. She didn't succeed, other people saved her. But then she feels no guilt. I'm sorry, this was a bonehead thing to do. Imo, it has nothing to do with Rand, unless, of course, she decides to blame him because her hormones are wonky.

Elayne obviously made a mistake, but how much of one is difficult to discern. She also obviously feels some guilt for it; otherwise she wouldn't tell herself that she is not feeling guilt for it. I think she is smart enough to learn from her mistake, whatever that mistake was.

No, she is thinking that there is sadness, but, oddly, not guilt.
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Are women really bad generals? Sidious - 01/10/2009 07:05:03 PM 1849 Views
I think that all we can conclude from this... Rand al'Thor - 01/10/2009 07:39:49 PM 1030 Views
No. RugbyPlayingAshaman - 01/10/2009 07:41:35 PM 1225 Views
Or RJ just loves stacking ridiculously unfavourable odds against the male Forsaken generals... Shannow - 01/10/2009 08:40:47 PM 1290 Views
Lol... too true Sidious - 01/10/2009 09:32:29 PM 1194 Views
And you guys whine about the lameness of RJ's villains? fionwe1987 - 01/10/2009 09:41:54 PM 1282 Views
I still haven't seen proof of Demandred or Ishamael's "brilliance". RugbyPlayingAshaman - 01/10/2009 09:56:41 PM 1008 Views
Ishamael's destroyed Civilization twice Rurouni_Kenshin - 02/10/2009 04:25:37 AM 987 Views
Re: Ishamael's destroyed Civilization twice RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 03:48:13 PM 905 Views
but you are difficult to please Sidious - 02/10/2009 05:10:13 AM 974 Views
Re: but you are difficult to please RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 03:46:56 PM 938 Views
Re: but you are difficult to please Sidious - 03/10/2009 06:17:21 AM 906 Views
But they are lame... they've done minimal damage to the Light Sidious - 02/10/2009 05:06:05 AM 911 Views
You can't have it both ways.... fionwe1987 - 02/10/2009 06:47:21 AM 1005 Views
Why not? Sidious - 02/10/2009 08:45:35 AM 962 Views
Re: Why not? fionwe1987 - 02/10/2009 04:27:00 PM 910 Views
Re: Why not? Sidious - 03/10/2009 06:34:16 AM 978 Views
Re: Why not? fionwe1987 - 03/10/2009 07:40:16 AM 964 Views
Re: Why not? Sidious - 03/10/2009 05:07:51 PM 936 Views
Yeah Etzel - 01/10/2009 09:57:01 PM 986 Views
Re: Yeah nossy - 01/10/2009 10:40:28 PM 969 Views
I thought the same in the past... Etzel - 02/10/2009 07:01:18 AM 944 Views
Gah! Hate! nossy - 02/10/2009 04:11:49 PM 960 Views
Ah, come on... Etzel - 02/10/2009 04:41:37 PM 941 Views
No no, I was just being pouty that I haven't read the new stuff yet. nossy - 02/10/2009 05:01:15 PM 941 Views
Yeah, I can understand that! Etzel - 03/10/2009 12:23:25 PM 782 Views
Unless... Fanatic-Templar - 01/10/2009 10:49:55 PM 1033 Views
Re: Unless... Sidious - 02/10/2009 05:07:14 AM 1047 Views
Well, it's entirely hypothetical, Fanatic-Templar - 02/10/2009 06:31:32 AM 916 Views
Re: Or RJ just loves stacking ridiculously unfavourable odds against the male Forsaken generals... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 01/10/2009 09:51:30 PM 1044 Views
What about Mat and Ituralde? Rurouni_Kenshin - 02/10/2009 04:28:49 AM 991 Views
Re: What about Mat and Ituralde? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 03:52:24 PM 902 Views
Good points! Also, these "generals" haven't actually fielded any troops beetnemesis - 01/10/2009 11:23:40 PM 928 Views
Further... RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 12:14:44 AM 950 Views
But as individuals they are meant to be deadly too Sidious - 02/10/2009 05:09:21 AM 896 Views
Just one point ^_^ RugbyPlayingAshaman - 03/10/2009 12:51:50 AM 930 Views
Well, yeah. They're knowledgable and deadly in person. Generalship doesn't come into it. beetnemesis - 04/10/2009 12:09:50 AM 900 Views
nope nossy - 01/10/2009 08:06:57 PM 1099 Views
Re: nope Sidious - 01/10/2009 09:32:38 PM 1140 Views
Tylee Kirgan, Birgitte, and one other, Egeanin NaClH2O - 01/10/2009 09:47:00 PM 1351 Views
Birgitte's not a soldier though. Darth_Katie - 01/10/2009 10:10:50 PM 937 Views
She says she's not, but so does Mat. nossy - 01/10/2009 10:34:04 PM 848 Views
Mat's not a soldier, either - he's a general RugbyPlayingAshaman - 01/10/2009 10:51:29 PM 975 Views
Right, which was what we were discussing at first. nossy - 02/10/2009 04:13:43 PM 911 Views
Yeah, I'm supporting your point about them both being generals RugbyPlayingAshaman - 02/10/2009 06:10:31 PM 979 Views
true, but she does pretty good NaClH2O - 02/10/2009 01:06:03 AM 985 Views
Oooh I forgot she's in charge of Elayne's lady guards. Darth_Katie - 02/10/2009 03:22:57 AM 863 Views
Egeanin or Leilwin nossy - 01/10/2009 10:35:53 PM 1100 Views
A ship captain is like a calvary general NaClH2O - 02/10/2009 01:24:37 AM 921 Views
Right. Cannoli - 02/10/2009 01:36:59 AM 914 Views
Well said. (And its short and to the point.) RabidWombat - 02/10/2009 03:54:23 AM 1046 Views
Birgitte is too cautious to be better than an adequate tactician. RabidWombat - 02/10/2009 04:22:45 AM 987 Views
Isn't this more of an outgrowth or her respective specialty? RugbyPlayingAshaman - 07/10/2009 08:40:46 PM 891 Views
My opinion Cannoli - 02/10/2009 01:30:12 AM 1434 Views
That's a poor excuse rAndy aL - 02/10/2009 11:59:42 AM 876 Views
That's a poor argument Cannoli - 02/10/2009 04:02:53 PM 1168 Views
Re: That's a poor argument rAndy aL - 03/10/2009 04:26:55 AM 982 Views
I disagree nossy - 02/10/2009 04:26:28 PM 981 Views
Re: I disagree Cannoli - 02/10/2009 08:31:29 PM 1198 Views
Oh, puh-lease. nossy - 02/10/2009 09:09:30 PM 1139 Views
Re: Oh, puh-lease. Cannoli - 03/10/2009 04:52:37 PM 962 Views
Re: Oh, puh-lease. NaClH2O - 03/10/2009 08:26:27 PM 842 Views
Re: Oh, puh-lease. nossy - 05/10/2009 05:08:27 PM 3428 Views
I always know I've out-argued an idiot when they fall back on the tired old "RJ wanted it that way" Cannoli - 06/10/2009 04:42:11 AM 1043 Views
And I can tell you're through when you've gotten to three+ insults per paragraph. nossy - 06/10/2009 05:46:24 PM 1108 Views
um nossy - 08/10/2009 07:36:52 PM 1255 Views
Monday morning quarterbacking at its worst RabidWombat - 04/10/2009 07:28:36 AM 1051 Views
Men and football. nossy - 05/10/2009 04:49:35 PM 1008 Views
She didn't kill anyone! Why SHOULD she feel guilty? She gave necessary orders. Cannoli - 06/10/2009 03:33:15 AM 1064 Views
It's the only thing men are allowed to do in Randland CupofDice - 02/10/2009 03:09:19 AM 1003 Views
My thoughts LordPerrin - 02/10/2009 03:12:46 PM 885 Views
.... Fantasy - 04/10/2009 03:38:44 AM 905 Views
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