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Re: So about Egwene... Cannoli Send a noteboard - 28/12/2015 10:52:29 PM


1. Egwene saved the WT from the Seanchan. Without her there is zero doubt that the whole Tower would have been enslaved as damane.
With or without her, there is zero possibility that the Tower would have been enslaved. They were RAIDING. They came to grab as many mareth'damane they could fit on the backs of their flock of to'raken and fly home, while causing as much damage as they practically could. Slaughtering every person on the premises they did not carry off would only have resulted in the death or chaining of no more than a quarter of the Tower, maybe 30% at worst. There would be an absolutely majority of the Tower surviving, consisting of hundreds of Aes Sedai, at least one organized body capable of electing an Amyrlin, and the overwhelming majority of novices, including many of the strongest and most promising. And that's a worst case scenario.

Egwene no more saved the Tower in that incident than the most heroic NY firefighter saved the city on 9-11. Namely, she did not, at all. She did a bunch of damage control, she saved some lives that might otherwise not have been saved, she was in position to do ANYTHING because of the fortuitous bubble of evil transposing her quarters to the actual Tower itself, and she committed inexcusable murder along the way, that is actually much worse on her hands, considering her own presumption to lecture others on violating the Three Oaths, or assuming the guilt of people she has not seen in months. I will grant that the murders in question might simply have been Sandersonian imbecility, but as depicted in the book, they were exactly that.

Saerin actually displayed greater leadership during the crisis, while Egwene herself would take steps to ensure that no one could do what she did, by stashing the -greal where no one else could hastily grab them in an emergency.

The irony is that the greatest harm of the Seanchan raid, which made the whole affair a resounding success according to the parameters the set out for the mission in their briefing of Tuon, was due entirely to Egwene's blunder making Traveling available to the loyalist sisters, and the Seanchan capturing Elaida and gaining her knowledge themselves. That alone would make the proposed raid a success, according to the Seanchan mission brief, and they got it.



2. Egwene destroyed Mesaana.
Egwene used a whole army of people to fight Mesaana, including three women who claimed greater skill in T'A'R than the Forsaken (at least one of whom embarrassed Egwene herself during the fight), and she only succeeded because Perrin dumped the dreamspike there, otherwise Mesaana would have E&E the way Egwene assumed she would in terror of Egwene's arrival in the Tower as the real Amyrlin Seat. It's an accomplishment to be sure, but hardly impressive coming so late after Nynaeve, with less training and fewer allies, defeated her more formidable compatriot. You yourself acknowledged back then that she won because she was so firmly fixed on an errant idea.
3. Egwene killed M'Hael.
It was a battle. Someone would have done for him at some point or other (especially if they had the opportunity to go after him with one of the most powerful sa'angreal known to exist) and all they did was throw power at one another. From another point of view, if Egwene is all that her fans make her out to be, M'hael came out ahead in that fight, since he removed an indispensable piece from the roster of the Light, at the cost of a minor & inexperienced Chosen. The weird thing is the emphasis on killing M'hael, when countering the balefire effect would count, I would think, as much more significant and impressive. Had she found a way to do so safely, that might have finally been a One Power feat to rank with Nynaeve's Healings. Her willingness to destroy herself because of her own sufferings degrades the nobility from the achievement, however.
Cannoli
"Sometimes unhinged, sometimes unfair, always entertaining"
- The Crownless

“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Deus Vult!
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Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 26/12/2015 08:46:07 PM 2573 Views
My answers - 27/12/2015 02:55:35 AM 1553 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 27/12/2015 04:42:28 PM 1662 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 27/12/2015 09:01:33 PM 1651 Views
Black Ajah - 28/12/2015 02:44:04 AM 1558 Views
Mine - 27/12/2015 10:39:08 PM 1688 Views
Re: Mine - 28/12/2015 12:57:23 AM 1624 Views
Re: Mine - 28/12/2015 09:51:54 AM 1417 Views
Re: Mine - 28/12/2015 02:02:33 PM 1440 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 28/12/2015 12:40:49 PM 1914 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 28/12/2015 01:53:00 PM 1751 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 29/12/2015 11:35:09 AM 1516 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 29/12/2015 05:12:46 PM 1523 Views
So about Egwene... - 28/12/2015 04:26:47 PM 1757 Views
Re: So about Egwene... - 28/12/2015 10:52:29 PM 1622 Views
Why do you bother? *NM* - 29/12/2015 01:23:10 AM 893 Views
Seriously... - 29/12/2015 01:30:34 AM 1527 Views
Sadly I have to agree - 29/12/2015 08:46:58 AM 1613 Views
You people are the insane ones - 29/12/2015 11:21:24 AM 1604 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 29/12/2015 12:10:51 PM 1698 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 30/12/2015 11:25:09 AM 1612 Views
Yet it's Mesaana who forces the head to head confrontation with Egwene - 30/12/2015 05:25:00 PM 1631 Views
I don't get the "circumstances being created" argument anyway... - 31/12/2015 02:53:14 AM 1415 Views
Re: I don't get the "circumstances being created" argument anyway... - 31/12/2015 06:28:33 AM 1560 Views
Damn stupid WoT, never working out the way you think it should! - 04/01/2016 01:38:45 AM 1584 Views
So you agree, Egwene eliminated on of the Forsaken in a direct conflict - 04/01/2016 03:28:35 AM 1419 Views
Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive. - 04/01/2016 07:17:20 AM 1656 Views
Re: Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive. - 04/01/2016 03:59:18 PM 1615 Views
Re: Yeah. I just don't see how it redounds to her credit, or is particularly impressive. - 04/01/2016 04:19:00 PM 1572 Views
Well, to put things in context - 04/01/2016 04:28:00 PM 1622 Views
Re: Well, to put things in context - 04/01/2016 07:05:27 PM 1897 Views
That's not the worst argument given how lame many of them were - 04/01/2016 06:37:44 PM 1774 Views
Uh oh - 04/01/2016 07:03:08 PM 2279 Views
*grabs Dewars* *NM* - 04/01/2016 08:24:05 PM 995 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 30/12/2015 06:22:02 PM 1752 Views
Apparently, Egwene shouldn't have killed the Sharans... - 31/12/2015 02:56:08 AM 1648 Views
it's just an excuse to not give credit to a character he doesn't like - 31/12/2015 04:44:17 AM 1806 Views
Exactly. The double standard has always existed in Cannoli's rants. - 31/12/2015 05:31:42 AM 1742 Views
Yes well I've only recently started to realize how distasteful it is - 31/12/2015 06:27:26 AM 1835 Views
Wow... the board was alive 5 years ago! - 31/12/2015 08:34:03 AM 1688 Views
LOL ... Someday you'll come to realize how right we were!!! *NM* - 31/12/2015 05:23:18 PM 1005 Views
How is this a concession? - 04/01/2016 08:05:38 AM 1864 Views
Re: How is this a concession? - 04/01/2016 10:49:20 AM 1876 Views
You can dislike Cannoli, you can claim his arguments are biased... - 31/12/2015 07:09:55 PM 1696 Views
Offended? No, I find it funny, in a needs medication way - 31/12/2015 07:50:28 PM 1578 Views
It is possible - 01/01/2016 05:59:51 AM 1706 Views
It's also possible that he created a bunch of sock puppet handles to pat himself on the back - 01/01/2016 06:53:27 AM 1732 Views
Re: It's also possible that he created a bunch of sock puppet handles to pat himself on the back - 01/01/2016 08:43:43 AM 1664 Views
She's. Not. A. Real. Person. - 02/01/2016 01:49:37 AM 1672 Views
Re: She's. Not. A. Real. Person. - 02/01/2016 04:16:39 AM 1653 Views
Re: She's. Not. A. Real. Person. - 08/01/2016 10:33:22 PM 1638 Views
Fair enough - 01/01/2016 09:31:47 AM 1421 Views
Where did I say someone who reads his posts are dumb or something? - 01/01/2016 05:15:30 PM 1544 Views
Not directly - 01/01/2016 09:09:05 PM 1493 Views
And yet I'm being told I'm the one acting offended - 02/01/2016 01:15:15 AM 1400 Views
See, this is the crap I'm talking about. - 01/01/2016 06:20:16 PM 1552 Views
Re: See, this is the crap I'm talking about. - 01/01/2016 07:25:38 PM 1683 Views
Okay, Mark, all kidding and stuff aside, you're being the asshole, here. - 02/01/2016 03:49:08 AM 1644 Views
Okay... - 02/01/2016 04:50:24 AM 1497 Views
About insults... - 02/01/2016 05:04:47 AM 1488 Views
I don't know where to even respond about all this! - 02/01/2016 07:39:43 PM 1503 Views
Re: I don't know where to even respond about all this! - 03/01/2016 10:39:10 AM 1494 Views
LOL ... Love it *NM* - 03/01/2016 04:17:02 PM 820 Views
Re: Okay... - 02/01/2016 12:55:37 PM 1736 Views
Um, I think you are going a bit far with your assumptions - 01/01/2016 07:35:23 PM 1488 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 29/12/2015 02:13:32 PM 1486 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 30/12/2015 11:50:13 AM 1769 Views
Re: You people are the insane ones - 30/12/2015 05:07:09 PM 1613 Views
My admittedly scratch memory - 31/12/2015 08:32:51 AM 1541 Views
Re: My admittedly scratch memory - 31/12/2015 08:47:58 AM 1568 Views
Thanks - 01/01/2016 06:14:45 AM 1474 Views
One thing... - 01/01/2016 06:42:10 AM 1407 Views
Re: One thing... - 01/01/2016 08:49:00 AM 1432 Views
Re: One thing... - 01/01/2016 01:40:21 PM 1470 Views
Interesting - 01/01/2016 09:18:43 AM 1429 Views
Re: Interesting - 01/01/2016 05:29:38 PM 1464 Views
Re: Interesting - 01/01/2016 06:50:26 PM 1432 Views
Or perhaps a mixed circle could figure it out - 01/01/2016 07:40:02 PM 1489 Views
Maybe it's like a broken bone? - 01/01/2016 09:10:26 PM 1426 Views
Re: Maybe it's like a broken bone? - 02/01/2016 01:13:05 AM 1473 Views
Re: My admittedly scratch memory - 02/01/2016 02:10:44 AM 1687 Views
Here we go with the selective criticisms again... - 02/01/2016 04:23:47 AM 1583 Views
It's not selective to point out legitimate differences in circumstances. - 02/01/2016 12:25:07 PM 1759 Views
not true, the Sul'dam's mission was to capture or kill as many marath'damane as they could - 02/01/2016 08:49:28 PM 1428 Views
How are they supposed to do that without a'dam? - 04/01/2016 01:45:52 AM 1524 Views
enemy combatant in an active hot zone - 04/01/2016 03:34:15 AM 1450 Views
Only if they were germane to the issue... - 03/01/2016 09:32:22 AM 1445 Views
Timing of the creation of the three oaths - 03/01/2016 08:22:12 PM 1453 Views
Re: Timing of the creation of the three oaths - 03/01/2016 08:56:35 PM 1595 Views
Cheers - 03/01/2016 09:50:41 PM 1448 Views
Re: Cheers - 03/01/2016 10:35:34 PM 1568 Views
Re: Only if they were germane to the issue... - 04/01/2016 07:15:58 AM 1529 Views
Q.E.D. - 04/01/2016 12:29:58 PM 1787 Views
Re: Q.E.D. - 04/01/2016 02:41:19 PM 1680 Views
Interesting... - 28/12/2015 02:31:33 PM 1518 Views
Re Perrin - 29/12/2015 07:24:41 AM 1585 Views
Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart? - 04/01/2016 08:26:18 AM 1691 Views
Re: Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart? - 04/01/2016 01:44:53 PM 1575 Views
Re: Perrin is right almost all the time. How is he not smart? - 07/01/2016 12:24:28 AM 1841 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 18/01/2016 04:40:03 PM 1306 Views
Re: Let's have a survey! Seven questions, give your opinions - 18/01/2016 04:44:10 PM 1306 Views
Overrated characters - 06/02/2016 04:24:55 PM 1331 Views

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