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I disagree ranagrande Send a noteboard - 18/10/2009 07:58:37 PM
But in that case everyones actions are meaningless, Rand might aswell go to Illian docks and make himself available to sailors for the "good" stuff.
Sure, he could if he wanted to. However, it is important to remember that even though everyone's actions are meaningless in the big picture, they matter to the characters themselves.

We know the Dark One doesn't win, otherwise it would be a rubbish story.
It would depend on how it was done. Sometimes having the bad guys win can make for a marvelous ending.

You have to look at these things in a relative way, important to the story, not the paradoxical universe that could never happen and is just the figment of someones imagination.
First of all, I have to do nothing of the sort. Secondly the "paradoxical universe" that I was talking about is the same as the "real" one that you are talking about. It is also still just the figment of someone's (in this case, Robert Jordan's) imagination.

You're trying to argue philosophy (a poor excuse for actual science) with the wrong person. Without Moiraine the DO would have Rand and would be free and have won, end of story.
Science is a philosophy, but philosophy is more than science. Philosophy is the study of thought.

Also, you're wrong. Rand is ta'veren. The Pattern spun him out for a purpose, and it gives him what he needs to accomplish that purpose. It gave him Moiraine, and yes, she helped him. A little anyway, at first.

If she hadn't been there, someone else would have picked up the slack, and Rand still would have been fine. You have argued that that argument is invalid; that even if someone else could have done what Moiraine did, she is the one who actually did it. By this logic, Master Hightower is one of the most important people in the fight against the Shadow. He took everyone on the first ferry trip as you will recall. Without him, Rand and Moiraine and everyone else never would have made it out of the Two Rivers. Pretty silly huh?

I also need to point out that in every book except the Eye of the World, Moiraine's plans and goals are just plain wrong, and more often than not would play directly into the Dark One's hands. For the vast majority of the series, Rand succeeds in spite of Moiraine, not because of her.
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Which character (besides Rand) has hurt the shadow the most? (my analysis and your opinion) - 17/10/2009 05:16:34 AM 1817 Views
Nyneave wins hands down - 17/10/2009 05:22:08 AM 1059 Views
Nyneave has done more - 17/10/2009 06:42:26 AM 997 Views
Nynaeve! - 17/10/2009 04:12:00 PM 931 Views
I'd say Mat - 17/10/2009 04:40:48 PM 1007 Views
are you sure? - 17/10/2009 04:48:01 PM 1019 Views
Not to downplay Nynaeve - 17/10/2009 08:40:45 PM 995 Views
Beg to differ, the "endless summer" was VERY important to the shadow - 17/10/2009 10:44:15 PM 1209 Views
Re: Beg to differ, the "endless summer" was VERY important to the shadow - 18/10/2009 11:10:20 PM 968 Views
believe what you want, but if the weather hadn't changed when it did TG would be over by now. *NM* - 18/10/2009 11:56:09 PM 442 Views
Actually, there might be a better reason for why it mattered. - 10/12/2009 07:03:32 PM 985 Views
Immaterial. - 10/12/2009 07:48:51 PM 851 Views
It has to be Moiraine - 17/10/2009 05:00:32 PM 1025 Views
Actually there were a couple of versions that happened, and Moiraine came in neither. - 17/10/2009 05:32:52 PM 1169 Views
So you think the story would have panned out - 17/10/2009 05:46:46 PM 873 Views
None. *NM* - 17/10/2009 08:43:08 PM 429 Views
That's highly subjective - 17/10/2009 08:52:17 PM 946 Views
Re: That's highly subjective - 17/10/2009 08:54:52 PM 870 Views
I think you know exactly what I mean. - 17/10/2009 10:53:40 PM 890 Views
All of them - 18/10/2009 12:09:55 AM 982 Views
Those were only visions - 18/10/2009 12:45:32 AM 895 Views
They may have only been visions... - 18/10/2009 09:19:05 AM 979 Views
"Every possible outcome to a given situation is the actual outcome somewhere" - 18/10/2009 04:45:44 PM 894 Views
Re: "Every possible outcome to a given situation is the actual outcome somewhere" - 18/10/2009 06:51:42 PM 1026 Views
That all goes without saying - 18/10/2009 07:26:06 PM 814 Views
I disagree - 18/10/2009 07:58:37 PM 952 Views
Re: I disagree - 18/10/2009 10:04:27 PM 908 Views
It's almost irrelevant- the Dragon Reborn was Foretold - 18/10/2009 02:07:47 AM 907 Views
Does that mean he'd win? - 18/10/2009 04:47:56 PM 913 Views
IIRC the prophecies don't say anything about whether the DR will win. - 18/10/2009 05:05:03 PM 882 Views
Not really what I was arguing. - 18/10/2009 05:30:05 PM 876 Views
Good points - 18/10/2009 06:14:08 AM 975 Views
the BCS is not a good system *NM* - 18/10/2009 09:08:25 AM 439 Views
Re: Which character (besides Rand) has hurt the shadow the most? (my analysis and your opinion) - 17/10/2009 05:26:26 PM 1163 Views
Someone needs to re-adjust their meds - 18/10/2009 05:55:58 AM 1052 Views
I wouldn't bother justifying yourself to him - 18/10/2009 05:41:42 PM 899 Views
That is true for most people if not all - 18/10/2009 11:28:44 PM 929 Views
He's got a point though... - 21/10/2009 11:18:38 AM 985 Views
"Always fight back! Never justify" Internet discussion rules 101. - 21/10/2009 04:37:32 PM 860 Views
Damn skippy! *NM* - 21/10/2009 11:17:36 AM 420 Views
Ishamael/Moridin - 17/10/2009 06:44:35 PM 1199 Views
Good call - 17/10/2009 10:55:38 PM 978 Views
Re: Ishamael/Moridin - 18/10/2009 09:21:29 AM 1094 Views
You make it sound very simple - 18/10/2009 10:47:57 PM 1003 Views
No - it is very simple - 19/10/2009 05:01:44 AM 967 Views
Not necessarily- - 19/10/2009 09:22:16 PM 948 Views
surely a draw meant resealing - 20/10/2009 03:56:49 PM 854 Views
I'm going with Nynaeve. - 18/10/2009 06:23:55 PM 998 Views
Re: I'm going with Nynaeve. - 18/10/2009 10:56:06 PM 1061 Views
Re: I'm going with Nynaeve. - 18/10/2009 11:22:36 PM 1004 Views

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