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I too wondered when exactly Elaida took an overdose of crazy pills Asha'man Send a noteboard - 01/11/2009 06:46:16 AM
Actually, I don't agree with any of it, not with the specific points you make - my problems lie elsewhere, though I'm sure you'll have thought along those lines as well.

My main problem with Egwene's storyline in tGS, actually, more than anything else, is that the reduction of Aes Sedai from demi-goddesses in EotW to ordinary human beings in the recent books, is taken to a whole new level here, with almost all of them reduced to squabbling grade schoolers who need Egwene to lead them by the hand and teach them. Elaida was an egocentric and cold woman at first, but she was not a doddering imbecile as in this book. The infamous supper scene in front of the five Sitters was, I will admit, quite fun to read, as I and I dare say many other readers have waited for Elaida to get put in her place for quite a while. But it was exaggeratedly hagiographic towards Egwene, as most of her storyline is - some of the inverted classes in which Egwene teaches women up to five, six times her age or more what to do are particularly bad in this respect (including one with not just one, but three AS, one of them Sitter *and* Head of the White Ajah...). Perhaps it's just that having the Tower AS raise her Amyrlin as well is so unbelievable a plot point, that any attempt to get there would've felt stretched. Perhaps another way could've been found that was better. Or perhaps RJ should've just admitted from the start that Egwene is apparently ta'veren (which incidentally is one notable thing that Sanderson seems to do much less subtly than RJ did it, as seen with Ituralde and Tuon, and one could argue also with Verin).


My re-read stopped at TSR, so I don't recall the middle books with clarity, but I suppose Elaida's megalomania has really been brewing since her ascension to the Amyrlin Seat. And then grown exponentially after (or during - can't remember!) KoD and before TGS.

And while it was immensely funny, and not to mention somewhat satisfying, a part of me yearns for serene Moiraine, ironclad Elaida, and their like! :disapprove:


The Seanchan attack specifically didn't bother me that much - Egwene is not so foolish as to consider her achievements a great victory, nor does she fail to realize what has happened, and that the Seanchan raid will not be seen as a failure. Here, too, the reactions and hero-worship of other AS who really should know better bother me more than her taking the lead. Adelorna, head of the supposed Battle Ajah, seems to be content following her around like a puppy instead of doing something useful.

As for your central point in comparing this to Rand's battle in tPoD, it has been a while since I read tPoD, but as I recall it, *he* is the main one to consider it a failure. The Seanchans from their end state that they've suffered a crushing defeat, and as far as I can recall, Rand's generals correctly think that he's done about as well as might've been expected. The only one that keeps complaining about the failure is Rand himself - it doesn't necessarily follow that the author agrees with that assessment.
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Well Brandon Sanderson has officially killed off the last volume of the Epic Saga of the Chosen One. - 30/10/2009 02:36:19 AM 2587 Views
Life in unfair, just let Egwene have it already. - 30/10/2009 03:11:04 AM 971 Views
I skimmed cannoli's predictable rant. I disagree. I LOVED EVERY CHAPTER! - 30/10/2009 03:29:24 AM 949 Views
Agreed! *NM* - 30/10/2009 03:47:52 AM 566 Views
I liked her chapters. Mainly because they gave her something to do. - 30/10/2009 09:43:58 PM 853 Views
I adore Brandon Sanderson. - 30/10/2009 05:05:11 AM 955 Views
Me too - 30/10/2009 10:38:52 AM 1016 Views
Exactly. - 30/10/2009 04:33:11 PM 858 Views
Re: I adore Brandon Sanderson. - 30/10/2009 02:45:03 PM 1039 Views
Re: I adore Brandon Sanderson. - 30/10/2009 04:34:53 PM 892 Views
I think he meant Cannoli, not you, Seriana. *NM* - 30/10/2009 05:30:17 PM 490 Views
Ahhh. - 30/10/2009 09:15:14 PM 867 Views
Re: Ahhh. - 31/10/2009 03:51:14 AM 857 Views
Re: Ahhh. - 01/11/2009 06:37:41 AM 890 Views
Ditto. Thought he was a breath of fresh air to the series. - 30/10/2009 03:27:43 PM 842 Views
If renewal means someone grossly unfamiliar with the series, sure. - 30/10/2009 06:26:19 PM 1373 Views
Everything up to tGS - 30/10/2009 06:25:28 PM 1074 Views
Re: Everything up to tGS - 30/10/2009 08:21:33 PM 1055 Views
What on earth makes you think I dislike it? - 31/10/2009 05:25:07 AM 962 Views
General impression lately I guess. - 31/10/2009 04:38:29 PM 868 Views
Re: General impression lately I guess. - 31/10/2009 10:41:06 PM 897 Views
Thanks. - 01/11/2009 06:32:12 AM 981 Views
double post, hate my computer. - 30/10/2009 08:24:12 PM 966 Views
Don't agree completely but what I do want to see is - 30/10/2009 07:12:54 AM 844 Views
so I guess ... - 30/10/2009 02:48:10 PM 1071 Views
You want a friend like Mat - 30/10/2009 06:33:47 PM 861 Views
might I add.. - 30/10/2009 08:30:24 AM 812 Views
Re: might I add.. - 30/10/2009 10:41:39 AM 915 Views
Re: might I add.. - 30/10/2009 06:47:17 PM 922 Views
There is a difference between defending your home from attack - 31/10/2009 03:34:57 PM 843 Views
I sit somewhere in the middle, she's improved, but still many flaws - 30/10/2009 11:35:47 AM 921 Views
Like others don't have flaws? - 30/10/2009 02:58:08 PM 905 Views
EVERYTHING is handed to her on a platter! - 30/10/2009 06:41:02 PM 946 Views
Touched a nerve did I? - 30/10/2009 07:19:00 PM 1036 Views
Re: Touched a nerve did I? - 30/10/2009 07:24:41 PM 952 Views
Re: Touched a nerve did I? - 30/10/2009 07:31:14 PM 1006 Views
Re: Touched a nerve did I? - 31/10/2009 06:36:33 AM 871 Views
Re: Touched a nerve did I? - 31/10/2009 09:33:34 AM 910 Views
And you aren't? - 01/11/2009 12:42:50 AM 862 Views
Seems to me you're both right. - 01/11/2009 07:45:12 PM 855 Views
Bah - 30/10/2009 03:36:42 PM 937 Views
wait a sec... - 30/10/2009 04:31:56 PM 1015 Views
Now now! Let's take off the rose-tinted glasses for a minute. - 30/10/2009 05:21:07 PM 838 Views
Re: Bah - 30/10/2009 06:49:47 PM 974 Views
Rant on! Rant on! - 30/10/2009 12:54:16 PM 821 Views
Re: Rant on! Rant on! - 30/10/2009 03:18:44 PM 874 Views
A personal question: Cannoli, are you threatened by a powerful woman? - 30/10/2009 07:13:30 PM 960 Views
Obviously. - 31/10/2009 05:37:52 AM 833 Views
Well... - 31/10/2009 05:56:56 AM 780 Views
Countries are real, normal and natural things. The White Tower has no proven value. - 31/10/2009 06:52:48 AM 886 Views
Tar Valon is a nation - 31/10/2009 09:20:43 AM 866 Views
The "Elaida's election was illegal because of Black Ajah Sitters" is really an absurd argument - 01/11/2009 12:06:32 AM 982 Views
It wasn't absurd. Just clever... - 01/11/2009 03:33:22 AM 960 Views
I wasn't saying the rebels had no cause for rebellion. Just that the election *was* legal. - 01/11/2009 10:38:59 AM 960 Views
Hmm..... - 06/11/2009 04:18:14 PM 803 Views
I take it she'll carefully avoid bringing up the war vote, then. *NM* - 08/11/2009 12:47:21 AM 381 Views
Not a problem... - 08/11/2009 06:17:39 AM 881 Views
Are you blinded by a pair of teats? - 31/10/2009 07:17:44 AM 1032 Views
Re: Well Brandon Sanderson has officially killed off the last volume of the Epic Saga of the Chosen - 30/10/2009 11:38:24 PM 966 Views
The harbor chain incident was no less stupid because it helped her - 31/10/2009 05:40:20 AM 815 Views
It must be embarassing to be on the same side as such dingbats. - 31/10/2009 07:18:42 AM 961 Views
*snort* *NM* - 31/10/2009 07:19:49 AM 489 Views
Re: It must be embarassing to be on the same side as such dingbats. - 31/10/2009 09:28:16 AM 933 Views
Don't expect rationality from Cannoli... - 31/10/2009 02:01:45 PM 997 Views
Or logical trains of thought from fionwe1987.... - 01/11/2009 01:07:06 AM 978 Views
Re: Or logical trains of thought from fionwe1987.... - 01/11/2009 04:30:21 AM 963 Views
Re: Or logical trains of thought from fionwe1987.... - 01/11/2009 08:41:58 AM 944 Views
Re: Or logical trains of thought from fionwe1987.... - 05/11/2009 02:40:16 AM 908 Views
Re: It must be embarassing to be on the same side as such dingbats. - 01/11/2009 12:31:10 AM 875 Views
I have one question - 01/11/2009 07:12:23 AM 913 Views
Capture, NOT kill, and she herself said the sa'angreal made that impossible. - 01/11/2009 07:59:44 AM 895 Views
Capture OR kill - 01/11/2009 09:12:08 AM 951 Views
Egwene isn't ta'veren - 31/10/2009 05:57:54 AM 817 Views
Re: Egwene isn't ta'veren - 31/10/2009 11:01:54 AM 833 Views
Events do seem to suggest otherwise. *NM* - 31/10/2009 04:40:42 PM 519 Views
I don't agree with all of that, but yes, Egwene's successes are a little too much. - 31/10/2009 04:30:32 PM 963 Views
I too wondered when exactly Elaida took an overdose of crazy pills - 01/11/2009 06:46:16 AM 992 Views
I see Cannoll is still going strong about Egwene... - 01/11/2009 08:40:17 PM 901 Views
There were a few instances in the book where Egwene really bothered me. - 02/11/2009 12:54:10 AM 859 Views
Egwene's always been a hypocrite - 02/11/2009 02:06:58 PM 1036 Views

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