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Re: Who performs the worst atrocity in this book: Egwene or Rand? (A good Cannoli question) randfandom Send a noteboard - 13/11/2009 08:16:29 PM
Everyone here has noted Rand's mass atrocity. Rand most likely killed dozens of Graendal's innocent pawns of Graendal when he balefired her palace. Rand did this to get rid of a necessary evil, and the people he killed were beyond saving anyway.
IMO, the only really bad thing Rand did was by burning them out of the pattern. Those people he killed will never have a chance to live again.


Actually RJ said that people killed by balefire do get reborn. Their souls are not taken out of the recycling bin. Balefire wipes out their last actions (in this case going back maybe an hour) and prevents the Dark One grabbing the soul at the point of death.

Since the people there had been reprogrammed by Graendel, Rand probably did them all a favor. They'll have a chance to be reborn free and not used as puppets.

However, Rand's action was a-moral. He knew that Ramshallan(?) was compelled by Graedel, but not whether or not she was still there. He killed these people without absolute positive proof that Graedel was there at the time of the strike. Luckily she was, but it could just as easily have been the other way.

It's a little like when we fight Al Qaida, the army bombs a civilian lodging because it has evidence that Bin Laden might be there. You don't know until after whether you murdered innocents for nothing or whether that action is justified even if you could prove the terrorists are there.

As for Egwene, she was perfectly justified, especially given her own experience as a damane, to do what she did, although I think she violated her vow that she follows the Three Oaths "in her heart" - for all she knew, the Seanchan came to collar, not kill, so by the Three Oaths she should not have used killing force.

randfandom
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Who performs the worst atrocity in this book: Egwene or Rand? (A good Cannoli question) - 13/11/2009 06:22:50 PM 2294 Views
Egwene also killed Aes Sedai who belonged to the shadow by the dozens - 13/11/2009 07:19:14 PM 991 Views
Re: Egwene also killed Aes Sedai who belonged to the shadow by the dozens - 13/11/2009 07:25:14 PM 929 Views
Forcible turning is not the only method - 13/11/2009 08:28:08 PM 1042 Views
But... - 13/11/2009 08:43:53 PM 1051 Views
The point is - 13/11/2009 11:00:58 PM 786 Views
They were tried. *NM* - 14/11/2009 12:23:45 AM 383 Views
Mock trials - 14/11/2009 08:06:14 AM 888 Views
Proof? - 14/11/2009 09:09:14 AM 823 Views
That's the impression I got from Sheriam's 'trial' - 14/11/2009 09:44:09 AM 889 Views
But... - 14/11/2009 06:55:54 PM 906 Views
And if Verin had been caught, she would have deserved death. - 13/11/2009 11:55:13 PM 985 Views
Ordinarily, I would disagree... - 14/11/2009 04:20:28 AM 1021 Views
Re: Ordinarily, I would disagree... - 14/11/2009 08:04:37 AM 930 Views
They had trials. No mention of them presenting such evidence. *NM* - 13/11/2009 11:54:23 PM 395 Views
Forced turnings should be killed too - 15/11/2009 07:06:43 AM 850 Views
Sad but true - 07/12/2009 05:05:08 PM 811 Views
Based on those two actions... - 13/11/2009 08:01:32 PM 1000 Views
How was she going to protect the Tower and occupants then? - 13/11/2009 08:02:31 PM 913 Views
There is a difference between collateral damage and targeting your own people! *NM* - 13/11/2009 11:56:10 PM 414 Views
She did not target her own people... - 14/11/2009 12:39:14 AM 893 Views
You seem to be contradicting yourself here - 14/11/2009 07:52:07 AM 909 Views
Because they were indistinct specks high in the sky? *NM* - 14/11/2009 09:11:15 AM 394 Views
Considering the power she had in her hands - 14/11/2009 09:52:10 AM 1206 Views
That's ridiculous... - 14/11/2009 07:07:11 PM 941 Views
Re: That's ridiculous... - 14/11/2009 07:21:44 PM 887 Views
typical cannoli double speak, she wasn't targeting her own people - 14/11/2009 01:46:10 AM 2468 Views
Nothing wrong with that. - 14/11/2009 08:11:15 AM 942 Views
She does have first hand experience - 14/11/2009 07:52:20 PM 949 Views
Dozens of dark sisters together...trapped like rats... - 18/11/2009 12:29:19 AM 856 Views
Re: Who performs the worst atrocity in this book: Egwene or Rand? (A good Cannoli question) - 13/11/2009 08:16:29 PM 906 Views
Neither is an atrocity... - 13/11/2009 08:17:08 PM 1126 Views
this ^ *NM* - 13/11/2009 08:34:10 PM 353 Views
Re: Neither is an atrocity... - 13/11/2009 08:59:30 PM 913 Views
Bull Sh!t! - 13/11/2009 09:08:00 PM 976 Views
Come on now... - 13/11/2009 09:13:50 PM 895 Views
Not outraged on their behalf... - 13/11/2009 09:26:11 PM 887 Views
Re: Not outraged on their behalf... - 13/11/2009 09:56:01 PM 794 Views
Re: Not outraged on their behalf... - 13/11/2009 10:08:06 PM 826 Views
Re: Not outraged on their behalf... - 13/11/2009 10:37:04 PM 878 Views
- 13/11/2009 10:45:57 PM 805 Views
Re: - 13/11/2009 11:16:58 PM 881 Views
Re: - 14/11/2009 12:34:49 AM 768 Views
Re: - 14/11/2009 01:46:51 AM 842 Views
Yes your argument is very much Bull Sh!t - 13/11/2009 09:15:17 PM 949 Views
So... - 13/11/2009 09:27:11 PM 893 Views
Re: So... - 13/11/2009 10:07:15 PM 791 Views
Not at all... - 13/11/2009 10:09:43 PM 816 Views
Re: Not at all... - 13/11/2009 10:54:14 PM 806 Views
Re: Not at all... - 14/11/2009 12:36:36 AM 803 Views
Break out the inflatable balloon swords and have at it already! - 14/11/2009 02:14:47 AM 834 Views
Rand. - 13/11/2009 09:17:14 PM 959 Views
Re: Rand. - 13/11/2009 10:56:04 PM 1101 Views
But that is not her choice to make. She has NO right to decide that for anyone. *NM* - 13/11/2009 11:57:03 PM 407 Views
No, she had no right to make that choice - 14/11/2009 03:54:35 AM 775 Views
Yes, it was her choice to make, and she is now responsible for the consequences. - 16/11/2009 06:24:46 PM 1234 Views
Its the difference between - 14/11/2009 02:59:42 AM 847 Views
Cannoli mentioned already - after balefire you can live again - 20/11/2009 03:38:06 AM 782 Views

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